For comparison, a Tesla Model S Plaid charges to 80% in 30 minutes, on a v3 supercharger. Reference (exactly 78% in 30 minutes): https://insideevs.com/news/544379/tesla-model-s-plaid-superc...
Other 800v cars are similarly fast: Audi e-Tron, Porsche Taycan, Lucid. Polestar has announced they're going 800v in 2024. GM's Ultium platform already uses 800v (currently just the Hummer, but expect them to rapidly release more truck and SUV models based on Ultium.)
Tesla has been snoozing for 3+ years on charging tech, and now their 400v architecture is inferior to what Hyundai, Kia, and GM offer. General Motors offers better charging tech than Tesla.
The world's largest automakers are (successfully) gunning for Tesla. Not a good time for Musk to be distracted, fucking around with a social media company...
Add to that the fact that those optimistic numbers are in perfect conditions, a preheated battery and the stars aligning perfectly in the sky that day- I rarely get even close to the advertised numbers.
Tesla is maxed out at 250kw for all models (3,Y,S,X) but they are working on increasing charging speeds on their V3 superchargers later this year: rumored to be 325kw. So I would say they are very much competitive with the rest of the industry and their better drive-train efficiency means you still get more added range per minute than all other EVs (except Lucid)
The Porsche Taycan can do 0 to 80% in 21 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrkAeTWDed4
A charging comparison between the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Audi e-tron GT (same platform as the Taycan), Audi e-tron 55, and a Tesla Model 3 Long Range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU
Remember Volkswagen Group hacking their own emissions tests? Reminds me of that.
Good luck traveling and finding those speeds. It’s more like “oh look we have an existence proof of a handful of fast chargers but none where you are going…” well, OK. I’d rather have a well built out network.
Here's a recent road trip by Out of Spec Motoring going from Fort Collins, Colorado to Las Vegas, Nevada. They took 5 EVs - 3 CCS cars, 2 Teslas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFQZhR-PRVo
The finishing order was Porsche Taycan, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Tesla Model X, Tesla Model 3, Ford Mustang Mach-e.
As ever, your mileage may vary.
> I’d rather have a well built out network.
Then what you want is CCS chargers with all brands of EV being able to charge at all brands of charger. Europe's leading the way on this. Most EVs use CCS in Europe (even Tesla).
Tesla is yet to switch to CCS in North America. Maybe they will soon.
The organizer does sponsorships with auto companies, and I can’t tell whether this was sponsored by Porsche, but, from his behavior, it seems like it was… seeing more and more of this on YouTube lately and it’s often not clearly disclosed.
The website mentions transparency, but I really don’t see any transparency here, although I will admit I have not been able to locate any fine print revealing the nature of the relationship with Porsche. The site basically just has a contact button and not much else. It looks not very transparent so I’d be wary.
And they had highly uncharacteristic issues with the Tesla superchargers during the trip, which possibly could have been known in advance, as part of the set up to tilt the board against Tesla by choosing this time to travel that route.
I stopped by a local Electrify America charger today just out of curiosity, and there was no 350 charger there, only 150. And usually there is only one 350 station if any. The nearby Supercharger in the same parking lot (though not open yet, still roped off) is 250 x 16 stations… kind of an overwhelming advantage there, one that can only be overcome by paid sponsored events that aim to plant false perceptions.
Here's another conspiracy: https://insideevs.com/news/585238/elon-musk-ccs1-plugs-comin...
The future is CCS chargers for everyone. Don't worry about it.
Even so, when we do get CCS for Tesla, that is yet another piece of good news for Tesla, because then we will have even more charging options over and above having the best Supercharger network, so the Porsche team will do well to get good at buying publicity.
Don’t be confused, I’m not saying all this to gloat, but more to say you should think twice before spending money on a competing car if you are relying on sketch events for data points.
Tesla is already CCS in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, etc. The European Tesla charging stations are already opening to all brands of EV.
The US is behind but eventually it will catch up. It's just a function of the US EV market being one third the size of the European EV market. Money will go to the bigger markets first and then the smaller markets will follow.
All brands being on the same charging standard is a good thing. You can fuel any brand of ICE vehicle at any brand of fueling station and you should be able to charge any brand of EV at any brand of charging station. Anything less than that just makes EVs worse.
Don't agonize over it. Embrace it.
I love how you think you are telling me stuff I don't know, though… bless your heart.
You don't need to bless my heart. You need to cultivate some perspective.
According to [0], there are only a few 350kW chargers in the US, mostly in the Northeast. If you look at the same map in Europe, they're pretty common on long-distance travel routes.
I wonder why this is? Is it related to US electrical infrastructure? I know in much of Europe it's common to have 3-phase electricity at home, for example.
[0]: https://chargemap.com/map (click "Search", set minimum power to 350kW and select all plugs)
It's because Chargemap's US map isn't very good.
Try Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/) or A Better Route Planner (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) or the maps from some of the providers themselves like Electrify America (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/).
[0]: https://insideevs.com/news/537223/kia-ev6-prototype-fast-cha...
I really like the colourful chart they have showing different charging speeds between different charge points. Thanks to that I think I'll probably try to charge 20-80% most of the time.
I'm used to thinking about it like a phone, which is always charged to 100%, but I think with the car I'd rather keep it to 60% or so for day to day driving around town and only take it to 80% or 100% for longer trips.
I'm going to try doing these measurements for my own car though, since the article was based on a prototype.
Potentially you could also just stop for 5 or 10 mins for a partial charge? 15 mins gets you to 80%, but arguably 5-10 mins might give you enough juice to very comfortably get where you need to go.
I know when I forget to charge my phone before heading out, those 5-10 min charge I squeeze before heading out might mean the difference between having battery at the end of the day, or not.
Exactly, that’s the trick!
Although I still meet people who don’t get this and needlessly keep their charge topped up while traveling, which is a lot slower.
On a trip from San Jose to LA we stop once to charge for 10 minutes, arriving with plenty of charge to spare. I’m not too worried about the “extra” five minutes, which we can make good use of.
10€/100km with diesel/gasoline and 2€/200km for electric is a complete no-brainer.
4 hours vs 1.5 hours.
Once the charging station's own battery is depleted - if all four stalls are in use, they will each deliver 87kW.
That is laughably bad.
And with good reason, there aren't many power grids particularly along long roads where you can simply plug in more than half a megawatt of consistent (!) load and everything continues to work as-is.
The sorry state of many power grids is keeping actually smart load management, EV, solar/wind/other renewable power generation and wildfire safety back so hard it hurts.
5 years ago, most rural lines were supporting homes and businesses with 200amp panels (and oversubscribed, since not everyone pulls all those amps at the same time). Complaining the grid isn't ready is like putting a gas power plant in the middle of no-where, and complaining that the only nearby gas main between two towns is too small to run the 700MW power plant.
Tesla can work around this by larger battery banks, or solar arrays to help recharge the battery bank faster. (they own companies that produce both). And in spots where they often can't keep up with demand, work with the power companies to get more power delivered.
It's pretty much the perfect location, the car usually charges faster than you can wolf down your Big Mac and fries.
The big super market chains are the other big player, they're taking customers from (overpriced) gas stations. It's usually a 5-10 minute detour to get to the local mega-mart and they have cafes and restaurants in there anyway - without the gas station markup.
Cold weather or non-economical driving may reduce that a bit, but you are unlikely to need to stop to charge in any given day before driving 200-300 miles (300-450km).
If you plan to go another 200+ miles, a 30 minute break may be welcome at that point. Or if you're caught just 50 miles or so from home, just charging 5-10 mins should let you reach your home charger.
Anyway, for normal commute driving, most people rarely need to charge away from home. These stations are for longer trips, that most people do only a handful of times per month.
They're made of of many hundreds of cells at different charge points, but likely 10-20% is as discharged as you're likely to get (without leaving the vehicle sitting for weeks on end) and 80% is as charged as you'll get. They have traded power density for lifetime and "charging rate".
Not to say there aren't people who only charge at superchargers, but as L2 availability increases I imagine that will be less and less common.
The range is about 100 yards before the electrics die... I can get 500 yards if I drive carefully...
Luckily the charge time has also sped up with age - I can recharge in about 5 minutes to drive the next 500 yards!
I have a 2001 BMW 330i that's on around 363k miles (~580,000km) and still running the original factory drivetrain. The only parts replaced so far are wear parts in suspension and brakes (common with EVs) and some coolant pipes (probably also needed in EVs).
There are a lot (vast majority?) of climates for which this would be really hard to do.
+80% range is probably a place where that argument is no longer relevant as it outranges most ICE cars.
You book a car, get to the rental place (only open 8am-5pm), and wait for 30 minutes while the one counter person working helps other people trying to pick up their cars. They get around to you, and they don't have the car you reserved. They try to upsell you on a larger car. You have to fool around with inspecting the car and noting any damage. If you miss anything, you fear they might try to charge you for it. You spend 15 minutes on other paperwork. They try to sell you all kinds of extra insurance. Finally, after about an hour, you're driving out in a car.
I have taken my kia e-niro on 1000km roundtrips, and this is totally acceptable as you have to stop for at least one meal, possibly two.
The convenience of an EV is fantastic - but I’m lucky to live in a building where charging is available.
1. Design a graphic symbol that means, “this parking lot has a charging station”
2. Put that graphic on relevant signs as tall as the ones which advertise Exxon or Shell gas stations.
This would create the impression of ubiquitous charging.
This will dramatically help with that.
Less energy to accelerate, and smaller motors, lower powered drive electronics, and less demand on the battery (and the less current you draw from a battery, the lower the internal resistance losses, so weight really does matter.)
It's better for roads, for one; heavier vehicles, with higher ground pressure, chew up roads faster. More weight means longer stopping distances and less handling capability for the same amount of tire (and you can't just slap bigger, stickier tires on. Efficiency plummets) so this relates to safety. And mass mattes in a crash, too. Drivers are stunningly good at crashing into all manner of stationary objects. I suspect as EVs get more popular we're going to see much more serious car vs building crashes, for example.
The market for an EV eighteen wheeler explodes once you surpass the range a driver can legally drive in one day (you need more because otherwise there's a huge efficiency loss if the driver has to stop early in order to get a charge before running out of range, even if he's got the time logbook-wise. Ideally he's charging the rig while sleeping, though.)
Work trucks like the Sierra HD or F250/F350/F450's, etc. can't yet be replaced because giving them the equivalent battery capacity would result in a truck with a fraction of its normal cargo and towing capacity.
The livery industry can't really use EVs because charging stations are too far apart and too unreliable and too unavailable; while the range might be relatively close to a typical towncar's for a single tank of gas, obviously a towncar can be refilled in under 5 minutes from a fuel source almost anywhere along where it needs to go, with little wait for a free pump.
Performance car segment - right now EVs are only seen in GT class cars and sedans. Lots of people like lightweight, responsive vehicles (Miata, BR-Z, "hot hatches", etc) and you can't do that with current battery tech.
In vehicles made on platforms not fully committed to an EV powertrain, the battery ends up eating up passenger compartment space, cargo space, or ground clearance. Handling is more stable due to lower Cg, but less capable due to a pretty massive increase in weight. So: minivans, cargo vans, passenger cars...
Imagine if they halved in cost but kept the same energy density. Yes, driving 1 tonne of batteries sucks, but I'd gladly do it versus my current polluting ICE, if the appropriate vehicle was available at an appropriate price.