Without government we at least had choice. I think you're needlessly cynical. Humans can organize themselves quite well when they have maximum choice as individuals.
The robber barons of the early nineteenth century were bolstered by governments--not hindered. Governments have always been corrupt.
I don't consider "give me your stuff or I beat you" a choice.
Oh, since we can't have them benefiting from positive outcomes of collective action, we'll pipe in polluted air and river waste to help simulate a truly free market environmental policy.
That’s a completely artificial and shoehorned idea. If you want to prove a point about libertarians, do it properly in a closed system. They must be left to their own devices and are left to clean their own pollution.
That's the point libertarians don't get: there is no closed system. There is no green field hypothetical.
But lets be real... How quickly do the cops come? Do they catch robbers?
Government was not dropped on our heads by the robber barons, it has been invented and re-invented throughout human history by regular people who need to solve problems.
> Humans can organize themselves quite well when they have maximum choice as individuals.
Yes, and then you’ll need a word to describe the collective actions of the organized humans. One such word is “government.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner
Many people didn't have a choice. Governments at the start are like mafias and will fight you until you acquiesce.
The history of the US is riddled with federal government takeovers and increased taxation of people who did not want it.
Humans have been creating societies and forms of governance for at least 10,000 years. Get some perspective.
Get some perspective.
Yes, the choice between surrendering to the bandit (who happens to be stronger than you) or getting shot by him.
"bandit" AKA government.
No, sorry. If you're thinking using excessively coarse categories like "governments," you're going to get things pretty wrong in most cases.
If that's too hard, then try this: if you think the government-as-bandit is bad, it'll be a heck of a lot worse when you're dealing with bandits-as-bandits, who don't even theoretically have any accountability to or responsibility for you.
Individuals are extremely weak; groups are pretty much always stronger. If you don't want to bullied as a weak individual, you need to band together with others, but then you're subject to how the group governs itself.