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Comment by whitepaint | Hacker News Reader

Isn't it enough to just have 2 servings of fatty fish a week? Why use pills?

There are also people like me in the world, vegetarians...

I take algae-derived DHA. Fatty fish get their omega-3 from algea, after all. As a benefit, the algea can be sustainably farmed in clean water, with no microplastics, heavy metals, or other contaminants. It's also not cruel! And the prices are pretty similar to fish oil!

I take these too. Besides being more environment and animal friendly they also do not suffer from buildup of persistent chemicals that is quite an issue with fish and fish derived products.

No concerns with heavy metals and algae sourcing? Supplements tend to concentrate whatever is in the environment they were harvested from. It always feels like a struggle to find reputable supplement providers. I have settled on Thorne for most things.

You're going to get far less heavy metals in algae than in fish. Supplements may concentrate things, but with fish you're adding concentration on top of concentration.

I avoid getting my omega from fish because it contains mercury and other "forever chemicals". There are suppliers of high-purity DHA omega 3 and that's good enough for me.

You should eat sardines and other small fish. They eat plankton and krill and other tiny things and therefore do not bioaccumulate the nasty stuff like mercury and PCBs.

https://www.webmd.com/diet/canned-sardines-good-for-you

This is the right answer

Supplements have risk of bioaccumulation just like animals much higher up the food chain - small fish and bottom of the food chain animals is often a very safe and sustainable bet.

Some supplements (I was told) do perform treatments to eliminate mercury etc.

Does anyone know what happens to the fish this oil is extracted from?

If it's sold to us, it wouldn't have any oil in it, now, would it?

As childish as I know this sounds, as a white male in my early 30s, I don't really eat fish. I like the occasional can of tuna, but thats it.

It might be an aspergers thing with me about texture, but I don't like the bones. I also can't really eat solid fat on steaks for the same reason.

I think chia seeds have a good source of omega 3, along with good quality grass fed meat, but not close to optimal amounts. These days I supplement with whole foods, desiccated and/or freeze dried and put in pill form. The cronometer app is great for seeing a whole day breakdown and looking for deficiencies, which showed me nearly 0% daily omega 3 without supplementation.

I did hear somewhere that certain populations of people might not get the benefit of omega 3, and that the usually cited studies were done on populations with a long historical trend of eating mainly fish (I'm sorry, I don't have the study to hand, so I can't link it)

> It might be an aspergers thing with me about texture, but I don't like the bones.

Have you tried salmon fillets, swordfish, butterfish, kingklip or tuna? These are rarely served on the bone and swordfish and tuna for example have a very different texture than most soft whitefish.

I usually don't order fish on the bone as it requires sensitive cooking to make it practical to eat (overcook it and its hard to separate meat and bones)

> I did hear somewhere that certain populations of people might not get the benefit of omega 3, and that the usually cited studies were done on populations with a long historical trend of eating mainly fish (I'm sorry, I don't have the study to hand, so I can't link it)

Some inland populations learned to synthesise it and so most people can. But it's a far inferior process for the body compared to eating fish

Besides salmon, and to a lesser extent tuna, which of those are high Omega-3? (Swordfish isn't common here, so don't know much about it, and I'm unfamiliar with the other two.)

Smoked mackerel is another option. Sometimes has the odd small bone, but if you buy it flaked the chance is rare, and it has a much more meaty texture than unsmoked white fish, and a delicious bacony flavour. Great with a salad or in a sandwich with lettuce and mayo.

Chia seeds, like most plant-based sources of Omega-3 are mostly Omega-3 ALA and not the Omega-3 DHA or EPA found from fish or algae sources. The body needs to convert Omega-3 ALA into DHA or EPA and there are various other factors involved in the conversion.

https://livinginnaturalharmony.com/blog/2018/01/12/omega-3-c...

>The body needs to convert Omega-3 ALA into DHA or EPA

IIRC it can only convert a few % of it. Hence the love for DHA or EPA supplements.

One of the factor is biological sex. Men convert a few %, and women convert around 30% of ALA.

Sorry for the diagnosis, but that avoidance of textures is a hallmark of ARFID (Avoidant/Restrictive Food Intake Disorder) which is indeed common in people on the spectrum.

Having a daughter with this disorder I can just say that, its not childish. Her disorder has been referred to as "food phobia" which explains it fairly well: She does not like a lot of food, but she actually _wants_ to try taste it and get better. But even when doing that, it doesn't really work for 95% of food, she just wont get better at eating it.

It was also mentioned that she is probably on the spectrum, but either she is very far down or she is very much a "girl" and hides it really well because she is diametrically different (play pretend is her favorite pastime, and also pretending to be others etc, also very social.) from how you are supposed to be on the spectrum, but in some ways she shows it in a classic way (change is very hard).

A lot of the stereotypes around AS are just that. I have two sons on the spectrum and both have traits they are "not supposed" to have and yet strongly evidence other traits so that the diagnosis is clear. In my experience this is even more the case for females. That said, the "food phobia" you describe is by no means restricted to ASD.

Not for nothing, but this subthread has finally given me a name for my own eating disorder. I'm almost 45 and in the last 10 years I've made some progress towards eating like a normal human being, but from childhood until I was almost 35 the stuff I'm reading about this disorder describes me incredibly closely. I grew up with food allergies (tree nuts, some seeds) and somewhat abusive father (he would get frustrated with me and hold me down and shove food in my mouth—obviously that didn't help matters any and I honestly believe that provided the impetus for most of my "origin story".)

This is something that affected nearly every aspect of my life. I didn't go to college away from home because I was afraid of cafeteria food in the dorms. I didn't join the military because rations. I never took a semester or year abroad because foreign food. Many of my relationships ended because seriously, how many times can a normal person eat bread and cheese in a week for years on end?

I'm sorry to unload here, I'm just reeling from having a name for this. I'm painting a picture here that is pretty bleak, because from the outside it definitely looked that way. I hope you're able to help your daughter move through it. The world today is far more accommodating than the one I grew up in though, so I'm sure her experience is somewhat different.

I also can't eat dairy or wheat for intolorence reasons. Its hard to live live a normal person sometimes. You try to date but can't go to a restaurant confidently (big cities are better though). Most sauces and prepped food have either wheat or dairy. Alcohol in in UK doesn't need an ingredients list either.

I would have sworn blind that I have a physical reaction to these two ingredients. I recently got prescribed some melatonin (it's only available on prescription in the UK) and noticed it had lactose in. I fought for the NHS to perscribe me my usual brand, which has worked fine for me in the past. When I looked, it had the same amount of lactose in as this new prescription.

This really shook me. I know the mind is powerful and can manifest physical symptoms, but to have been "tricking" my self for so long was very eye opening. I'm going to try to get someone to crush up and randomise the new and old meds to see if I can tell the difference blind.

I'm starting to think this has been a mental condition this whole time. I would have bet all I had that it was a real illness a week ago.

Depending on the amount of lactose and intolerance, your body may be able to process a small amount of it(such as in a pill) versus the amount in a glass of milk. It's not a purely binary function.

You could be allergic to casein instead of lactose.

Doesn't seem like it is after some looking. Not liking one type of food because of texture isn't enough for a diagnosis, at least according to this criteria:

"According to the DSM-5, ARFID is diagnosed when:

An eating or feeding disturbance (e.g., apparent lack of interest in eating or food; avoidance based on the sensory characteristics of food; concern about aversive consequences of eating) as manifested by persistent failure to meet appropriate nutritional and/or energy needs associated with one (or more) of the following:

* Significant weight loss (or failure to achieve expected weight gain or faltering growth in children).

* Significant nutritional deficiency.

* Dependence on enteral feeding or oral nutritional supplements.

* Marked interference with psychosocial functioning."

If they're meeting their nutritional needs with other foods just fine, they don't have this disorder.

Like take my wife as an example. She refuses to eat several foods because she doesn't like the texture (fish, solid fat on meats, cottage cheese, a bunch of other foods I don't remember offhand). But there's plenty of other things she will eat, and she doesn't have a nutritional deficiency.

Source: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/learn/by-eating-diso...

Do note how the criteria actually only require one of the former and one of the latter group. If your wife avoids foods AND doing so causes psychosocial distress (such as not being able to eat with coworkers and consequently getting excluded) then the diagnosis does apply.

In my wife's case, at least, it doesn't cause her psychosocial distress. It just means I usually have to wait until she's got other plans before I can order from a sushi restaurant (I say usually because sometimes she's fine with getting a noodle dish). None of the bullet points apply to her.

In fact, I had more trouble finding food I could eat at restaurants when I was on the keto diet (and many years earlier when I was on a vegetarian diet), then she does right now.

The parent poster also didn't mention anything about it significantly interfering with social functioning.

Regarding texture. I've had issue with textures and still do. However, I have found that repeatedly trying what ever is bothering me can reduce or eliminate the effect. I of course only try this at home. Most sashimi was very difficult for me but now I can eat and enjoy it.

Completely agree about the bones, once I find a bone in the fish I have difficulty finishing the dish.

There are many different kinds of fish with varying textures. Freshness really matters. How its dispatched and processed matters. How its cooked matters.

I would urge you to keep exploring, try everything everywhich way, you will surely find something you can get behind.

If you live near the coast, seek out the docks and look to buy straight from local fishermen. Learn to clean and store it. Its worth the extra effort.

Same here. I don't generally have a lot of faith in supplements beyond a diverse and reasonably balanced diet or nor do I think it's a good idea to make uninformed decisions risking to disturb the body's natural equilibrium with wrong dosing, but as I'm not a big fan of eating fish, omega-3 supplements are an exception. As long as research seems to point out obvious benefits, I will keep taking them.

I'm in late 30's. I hated fish all my life. Then one day in my early 30's I was invited out for sushi with friends. Ever since then I was hooked. Over time, the kinds of sushi I order has evolved from the fancy deep-fried rolls with lots of sauce to the simpler, more-traditional rolls, to the basic sushi (nigiri), to sashimi. Along with that, my preference for sushi restaurant has evolved from low-end all-you-can-eat to higher end places that serve high quality sashimi.

Nowadays, I also enjoy English-style fish and chips as well as fish tacos, as long as they're really crunchy. Sushi will always be my favourite though.

I'm not saying this same sort of path will work for you but I think it's worth a try. I have been really happy with this expansion in my diet range. As a kid I really didn't like most foods. Now I find myself eating a lot of foods that my friends won't touch!

Where do you get your fish? I feel like I would have to go pretty out of my way to even buy a fish with bones still in it.

Having to carefully eat a fish with bones is not something I like dealing either, but I noticed with fish I catch myself it's often easy cleanly debone them: after you bread and fry them up the meat will usually separate cleanly from the bone, and often I can split the fish like the wafers of a nutty bar and lift the entire spine out with all the the pointy bones attached, leaving two easy to eat filets.

Maybe because 2-3 servings is on the low end of ideal. If we didn't have mercury in our fish, we could eat more. Just speculating here.

The article mentions a dose of 2.2g/day LC-n3-FA, whereas a mackerel fillet contents 4g in one piece - therefore, it seems not.

Don’t eat fish. The microplastic levels are too high for human consumption, not to mention dioxins in farmed fish.

  > The microplastic levels are too high for human consumption

got any links?

There’s this service that allows you to find things by keyword.

https://www.google.com/search?q=microplastic+in+fish

Almost all seafish is toxic even in small, weekly amounts. I think the main contributor to this is mercury, that was once used in industrial processes, which basically still all sits on the bottom of the sea (where many fish eat from).

The science of that is far from settled.

There's evidence that mercury in fish accumulates from natural sources [1]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/12/031205053316.h...

Might as well not breathe the air, drink the water or eat anything sourced within 1000 miles of an industrial center. Good luck with that.

Arcologies may very well be the future. Owning a HEPA air filter and reverse osmosis water filter slowly becomes the norm in my circles.

What about the potential mineral leeching issue with RO? I use a RO filter and mix it with 30% glass bottled water, both for taste and in hopes of avoiding any potential issue with leeching. I searched a bit but found nothing useful on the topic.

What would be leeching and where?

Sounds like a massive waste and headache for basically no benefit.

The theory seems to be that the lack of minerals in RO water might serve to leech minerals from one's body. I think there's also some concern RO water might leech from cooking vessels and organic compounds in plastic tubing, etc.

I have no idea how real the risk is, and it all seems less risky than drinking unfiltered water in most areas.

But it's no headache for me to mix RO water with bottled spring water, since I prefer the flavor and it takes seconds.

to leech ~ to drain (from the animal) to leach ~ to lose soluble constituents

Haha. And I even changed it from leech to leach and back again. English defeats me again!

City water hasn’t been palatable in years, in a a lot of places.

It’s mostly down to infrastructure, the pipes, not the quality of water released.

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