I think it's sad that we have an industry, where someone with six years' experience, is considered a "veteran."
But it sounds like Amazon is sending a message to managers of other warehouses, to go as low as possible, to fight unionization.
Expect things to get ugly.
I'm a bit concerned about this one guy on one of my previous teams who moved from Europe to US to work on AWS. I don't think he was aware of the company culture.
Out of all of the positions/firms on my CV, that one seems to carry the most weight to recruiters and other companies, despite it being the time where I did the least productive work in my life (So much so that when I was asked why I was leaving during my exit interview I straight up said “I’ve gotten dumber since working here.”)
I was well past the 60% mark by the time I got through my first Q4 working for Amazon as an SE, and in to something like 90% by the time I got through my second. The figures the L7 engineers were bouncing around at that time were that developers averaged around 2 years.
Its a common stall tactic for large businesses to fire leadership after a Union is formed. It means you cannot facilitate a good faith negotiation and places the union in a perpetual limbo that can last years.
Thanks!
They’re hamsters on a wheel and the wheel isn’t going to slow down just because they’re upset about their situation.
Amazon is a horrible place to work. Six years is a lifetime there.
If Apple did this, they’d never ship hardware or software updates.
Ultimately, this, I think, sets up a lot of perverse incentives. Engineers are encouraged to burn themselves out to beat their coworkers, and there's less value in maintaining a good product. Anyone who remembers the very early days of their cloud offerings could pretty easily see the results.
The main point is that this is a fairly unambiguous message to other managers, that allowing unionization to happen under their watch would be a careericidal offense.
That means that they can expect the warehouse managers to get pretty desperate, and probably break all kinds of laws and whatnot. It's just that the message is being sent in a way that allows the company to keep their hands clean, from the almost certain results.
The managers will certainly get fired, if unionization happens, and might get fired, if they get caught, spiking the trees.
Guess which path the managers are likely to take?
Walmart laid out the playbook that profits in a thin margin market require you being an asshole to your counterparties, but blackmailing them into still working with you via scale.
It would seem to make sense for all the warehouse managers themselves to form their own union.
What does it take to be considered a "veteran" in the military?
> The term "veteran" means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.
( https://www.va.gov/OSDBU/docs/Determining-Veteran-Status.pdf )
> Most first-term enlistments require a commitment to four years of active duty and two years of inactive
( https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/making-commitment... )
A veteran is someone with experience. Why wouldn't six years of experience make you a "veteran"?
My father[0] was a veteran. He's buried in Arlington. Got a silver star, a bronze star, and a purple heart. His GI Bill benefits got him a Harvard LLB.
I am not even close to a military veteran. I did work for a company for almost 27 years though. In this community, that elicits a lot more scorn, than it does respect.
Source: https://www.va.gov/OSDBU/docs/Determining-Veteran-Status.pdf
In any case, my original post had nothing, whatsoever, to with military service, and I think we've just about exhausted this rabbithole.
If you take the oath, go where you're sent, and do as you're ordered (within the law and morality), that's all that can be asked. Some find themselves having to do it with people shooting at them or trying to blow them up, like my dad and some of my uncles; others are more fortunate, like numerous other family members, including me. All are veterans. (And that goes for draftees too, although it's been 50 years since the U.S. has had a draft.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/10/22...
> 1. A person with long experience of a particular activity.
The military version is a bit different:
> 3. A person who has served in the armed forces, especially an old soldier who has seen long service; also called a war veteran to distinguish from veterans who weren't in armed conflict.
The etymology from https://www.etymonline.com/word/veteran is:
> c. 1500, "old experienced soldier," from French vétéran, from Latin veteranus "old, aged, that has been long in use," especially of soldiers; as a plural noun, "old soldiers," from vetus (genitive veteris) "old, aged, advanced in years; of a former time," as a plural noun, vetores, "men of old, forefathers," from PIE wet-es-, from root wet- (2) "year ... General sense of "one who has seen long service in any office or position" is attested from 1590s. The adjective first recorded 1610s.
You can see definition (1) dropped the "soldier" restriction, and (3) dropped the "old" restriction.
I therefore don't think you can apply your understanding of (3) when (1) was meant.
FWIW, there's also a veteran car, which is one built before 1905: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_automobile#Vete... .
I just assumed they were always hiring because of consistent growth.
According to the guy (forget his name. Wears a gold chain.) representing the union; Amazon fires a lot of employees. Many for no reason.
(I once read a restaurant success book. Everything he recommended made sence, except one, and it does make sence, but it's weaselly.
His recommendation to restaurants was to fire all employees every six months. Turn over the semi-skilled completely. His reasoning was a new employee didn't complain, didn't steal (this was before companies had cams everywhere, gps tracking, and wrist movment counters), and worked harder.)
I believe this is Amazon strategy.
It's usually a bit harder to fire union workers for no reason.
Fire them before they can see the inequities in the company.
Which I rather doubt that you can train them in all things in that timeframe...
Just to give an estimate. Covid might have contributed to that though, probaly more temp workers than usual.
On the other hand, it could be to not give the workers a reason to unionize.
The employer-employee relationship is just another transaction, and should be win-win. If a manager sees it as win-lose, he should be fired. The same goes for an employee.
I've been an employer and an employee, and always recognized that it should be a win-win relationship and approached it from that angle.