Comment by smeej | Hacker News Reader

Comment by smeej | Hacker News Reader

I had to reach a point where I admitted to myself that, as much as I may wish I were a person who could handle having a smartphone in my pocket, I'm not. If I have one there, it will suck up time I don't want to give it. I tried putting all kinds of guides in place until I just...got a flip phone that, yeah, can run Android apps, but absolutely sucks to use. It doesn't have a touch screen, so I have to navigate with a D pad and type with T9. It's awful.

That's paired with a color eInk device that can also run Android apps. It's wonderful for reading things that have discrete pages (ebooks), but awful for anything that moves or requires scrolling.

My personal computer sucks too. This happened totally by accident, but I wound up with a machine that won't sleep properly, so I have to shut the thing all the way down every time I'm done using it. It's a pain to use.

When I reached the point where I actually wanted to change, I had to make it suck to do the things I used to enjoy. I kind of envy the people who can add smartphones to their lives and have their lives get better. Mine got worse.

But at least now, when I'm looking at some free time, I don't want to pull out my phone (I hate using my phone), I might want to read an ebook, and I don't want to pull out my computer. I wish it didn't come to this, but at least it works.

I agree completely, the only reliable way to quit using a smartphone is to stop carrying one.

I don't know why we apply such different thinking to digital addictions than physical ones.

You would never tell someone who was trying to quit smoking "just carry a pack of cigarettes and a lighter everywhere but don't use them".

Because we still need certain utilities on our phone, like Maps and Music and Search and Camera. Those aren't the problems--we still want those things, which are not addictive and fruitful, but we want less of things which are addictive and fruitless, like Twitter and Reddit. Cigarettes have no such essential and positive utility.

That's why I like this phone that can do those things, but I really have to be sure I want to do them.

It's surprising how often I actually don't, though. Rarely am I going anywhere I actually don't know how to go. Rarely do I actually need to take a photo of something (though to be fair, I've never really been into photography; this would be different for people who are). I prefer quiet to music (although again, admittedly, I know I'm not the norm here). And not being able to search the answer to any old thing whenever I want? Turns out I forget most of those things by the time I get to a computer, so I guess they weren't terribly important. I make more of a point of trying to learn things now.

I don't distract myself as much as I used to. I feel like I'm actually more present when I'm present because I don't have anywhere else to be.

YMMV, but there's no perfect solution. Everything has tradeoffs. You just have to choose which set you care about most.

>though to be fair, I've never really been into photography; this would be different for people who are

Anyone who is seriously into photography will be carrying a proper camera. The idea of professional photographers using smartphone cameras is just pure marketing bullshit IMO. Smartphone cameras are severely limited by physics and always will be.

As someone who used to be heavily into photography, my smartphone may as well have not even had a camera because if I wanted to go out and take pictures I would bring my DSLR.

Plenty of photographers have admitted that phone cameras often are "the camera you have" when the great shot arises unexpectedly, at which point the unreasonable quality they offer given their constraints comes in handy.

They are also excellent B-stock video cams in live settings etc.

>Because we still need certain utilities on our phone

You don't "need" any of those things, humans got on with life just fine without them for 100,000s of years, smartphones have only existed for the last 15.

>Maps

Look it up on a computer before you go, or ask someone on the street for directions. The only "benefit" having maps on a phone gives you is that you can completely avoid talking to people and just stare down at a screen instead.

>Music

MP3 players still exist. Or just ditch the music and be present in the moment.

>Search

I have never spontaneously needed to search something that couldn't wait 30 minutes until I was back at a computer.

>Camera

If you're going somewhere you know you're going to want to take pictures then take a proper camera. Otherwise you probably don't need one. I can't think of a single instance in the past 2 years where I needed to take a picture of something that actually mattered without knowing beforehand.

> You don't "need" any of those things, humans got on with life just fine without them for 100,000s of years, smartphones have only existed for the last 15.

That's an odd thing to say. Humans got on with life just fine without electricity, central heating, public education, public transportation, computers, and the internet. I'm grateful I have access to them.

What's the cutoff for things that didn't exist for the majority of the humankind, but are good to have?

I am much the same way. I use more of a half measure than you, which is to physically remove the phone from my proximity as much as possible unless I’m intentionally trying to zone out. So if I’m working, the phone is in another room on silent. When I’m done with work, I do a hard “screens off” time for family time from 6-9 or so. That, combined with deleting fb/ig and logging out of twitter (still sometimes useful for news so I haven’t deleted it), has helped me exercise more control over my habits versus just sheer willpower.

I think you're in that category of people whose discipline I envy/admire! Half measures are so much better at mitigating the downsides of any tradeoff. I totally recommend them for anyone who can use them and make them work!

What phone do you have and can it run osmand? There aren't many android flip phones...

It's the Kyocera DuraXV Extreme. I downloaded F-droid through the browser, and since I was coming from a GrapheneOS phone anyway, was already pretty used to a de-Googled setup. I haven't tried OSMand on it, but it probably can.

I did need to install Apps4Flip Mouse[0] to be able to use some apps that aren't D pad friendly, like Signal and Waze.

You might have some luck finding devices on other carriers with Jose Briones' Dumbphone Finder[1]

[0] https://www.apps4flip.com/apps/ [1] https://josebriones.org/dumbphone-finder

T9 was great. Back in the day, I and others could send SMS messages without ever taking the phone out of our pockets; purely from muscle memory.

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