Before camping got wimpy: Roughing it with the Victorians | Hacker News Reader

Before camping got wimpy: Roughing it with the Victorians

collectorsweekly.com

27 pointsliar36 comments

Funny article to elevate ‘camping’ in particular from Victorian age. I’m from CA and did backpacking with the Boy Scouts and later backpacking with the help of Sunrise Mountaineering of (Fremont,CA -that’s how old I am).

Now I’m in NY and camping in upstate NY— the birth of fly fishing! Who knew.

And the history of fly fishing is a history of NYers who bought land and started fishing clubs, keeping everyone out. Authors Ed Van Put, Austin M. Francis describe this history.

Early fishers were fighting over their spot on the creeks and rivers before the rail road from NYC reached these spots.

So into this history here falls this story. Sounds like vacation industries catering to less wealthy Americans who can’t form their own fishing vacation companies.

> upstate NY— the birth of fly fishing!

According to Wikipedia, fly fishing was known in the Roman Empire ¿Am I missing an obvious joke here?

No joke . I under-determined . Birth of “American” fly fishing.

The American style of fly fishing occurs when bug patterns match our bugs!

Prior to the names mentioned in the two cited books, Americans used flies based on European patterns.

Fascinating. I didnt realise that contemporary Americans refer to Americans of that era as "Victorians".

We don’t—I wonder if the author is Canadian or something.

Seems odd to me to call Americans of that time Victorians, but it’s common to say they lived in “Victorian” style houses.

That’s because nobody does.

This was what "real" camping was considered in Western Canada when I was growing up. If you didn't have to hike a few hours in, if there were amenities you didn't have to build yourself, if you weren't responsible for potable water, it wasn't real camping but rather a multi-day picnic. Closest I ever saw to that in modern times was Big Sur (they had cleared plots and a permanent latrine set up, which is probably better for the environment).

But even we were considered soft by the previous generation. My father would go camping with friends during summer vacation like so: My grandfather would drive them deep into the bush along a logging road (to a high enough elevation that the trees thinned out a bit), drop them off, then come back to pick them up a week later.

What you’re describing sounds like normal camping, you hike for a few hours and pitch your tent somewhere. Isn’t the drive in picnic variety just an American phenomenon?

Tent? isn't that taking the easy route? What's wrong with a tarp or just sleeping under the stars?

Obviously rain is the big problem with not even having a tarp, and as tents are generally heavier than a tarp I'm not sure why that would count as the easy route.

Tents feel more like a house, you're sort of indoors. Plus it holds itself up, so easier to set up than a tarp, unless you just use the tarp as a blanket. I tried that, in the rain, not recommended at all.

Bivouacs/shelters are indeed quite popular, there are lots of permanent ones made of wood out here. Basically just a slanted roof. https://vindskyddskartan.se

No. "Camp sites" where you drive in and stay in an allocated spot in your tent or vehicle are definitely common in Europe. They have washing facilities and often much more: playgrounds, restaurants, even water parks. Some people also hike and camp in the wilderness, but I'd bet it's a minority.

I'd be fascinated to know where you live that "hike for a few hours and pitch your tent somewhere" is normalized and the very idea of a camp site sounds foreign.

I mean sure, here in Sweden there are big camp sites that are essentially grass parking lots where people squeeze in their camper vans or sometimes even tents like sardines. They have amenities, maybe even a mini golf course!, but that's a completely different thing. Nobody would compare that to actual camping, and most people think it's crazy and make fun of it.

But what shocked me in the US was that there are "nature" camp sites where you more or less drive up to a designated, single tent spot where you pitch your tent. It's baffling and seems to entirely defeat the purpose of camping in nature.

"Nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded".

Haha, yeah. Well they seem to enjoy the crowdedness, it's a weird subculture.

In the UK at least (apart from Scotland), wild camping is only legal with permission from the landowner (even in national parks), so most people use campsites to avoid the possibility of being driven off by a ranger or angry farmer.

Same in Germany; actual wild camping with a tent is not allowed. However, there is some provision to allow sleeping in the wild (sometimes called "biwakieren", using a bivouac or similar basic shelter; e.g. a tarp).

When my SO and I did a multi-week cross-country trip we went for whatever designated camping sites was close by and pitched our tent there (except Berlin, there we went for a Airbnb). Though for us this mostly replaced switching hotels every other day. We then did local stuff around there, like canoeing, hikes, museums,... However, we did spent some nights in the wild, with camp beds (US: cots) placed next to the car. But when you don't know the general area, finding a good spot for that proved rather difficult. Entering forests with a car is usually verboten, and close to main roads there will at least be a lot of morning traffic; OTOH we had a pleasant conversation with some elder locals on a morning hike when we found a spot near a nice fishing pond in a small forest (yes, yes, driving there was erlaubt, not verboten). They only regretted not having some coffee for us :)

That's depressing. But is there wild camping in Scotland then? Would be amazing.

Yes, Scotland allows wild camping.

If you're considering going to Scotland and are thinking of that sort of thing, you should also look up the concept of a "Bothy" or "Bothies", which tend to be in mountains. They are a sort of refuge/simple transient accommodation. Generally small, quite basic huts in the deep countryside and remote places, where you can stay without booking and for free, but just overnight while you're on your way around.

Perfect, exactly like here, thanks!

This is such an odd thing to gatekeep. What “purpose” does camping in nature serve exactly?

The key is in the word "nature", lots of people enjoy being in more or less wild nature. And camping, wild camping in American, is about self-sufficiency and simplicity. You only use what you carry on your back, and you don't bring more than you absolutely need.

I'm not saying you shouldn't put your tent on a crowded lawn, or next to your car, if that's you want to, but it obviously doesn't serve the same purpose as hiking up the mountains and putting your tent next to a brook, miles away from anyone else.

I don't think you answered the question. What is the purpose?

I did, it's the first paragraph.

> lots of people enjoy being in more or less wild nature

> camping [is] about self-sufficiency and simplicity

Proving to yourself that you are better than a housecat, and still contain some vestigial instincts for survival.

Is it really that hard to imagine that some people genuinely enjoy being outdoors? It’s extremely popular.

In Australia there are a massive variety. At the easy/luxury end there are camping-parks where (as you describe) there are playgrounds, full washing facilities, often an on-site shop and cafe, usually chalets available for hire, pitches for your RV, and preallocated tent-pitches. At the more basic end there are sites in the national parks where you put a fee in an envelope on your way into the park, then drive your 4x4 or hike to a really remote spot and set up semi-wild.

There's usually some sort of toilet facility.

I'm not aware of fully 'wild' camping here, and you'd want to pick your spot carefully because of the crocs and snakes. Not that they're fully absent from the marked places!

Can confirm wild camping in Queensland. There are laws that prohibit camping on private property without permission, but there definitely non sanctioned camping going on in the norther states.

You're using a tent? I only call it camping when you craft your own shelter from sticks and leaves, and only eat what you can find or hunt.

What you're describing sounds like a modern 'soft' version.

You use sticks and leaves? Luxury!

Why do you need to eat you softy? Can't you just make it a week without eating?

I've always heard of

camping = pull up somewhere and pitch the tent, you may be near a lake or some hiking, but you generally aren't going far with all of your gear, also call this car camping

backpacking = putting all of your gear in a backpack and hiking to your destination, packing up and continuing on to the next spot or head back. There's no set milage or time you need to hike in order to call it backpacking, but I'd say it's where you start thinking about the things you don't need to bring with you because you don't have room in the one bag you have or it's too heavy

We went camping in a California national park once. The park was really beautiful but imagine my shock when not only did they have designated campsites that were extremely boring, you drove your car all the way up to the site, there were individual parking spots within 10 meters of each tent site!

Apparently the Victorians went car camping? I can't have that right; the car wasn't common until the 1900's.

Anyway, the OP describes camping significantly more luxurious than our simple Boy Scout outings.

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