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citizenkeen

(1) [Thing] is bad for the world

(2) But I want it.

This is the recipe for the road we are on.

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(3) And im willing to pay for it.

I only eat 100% grass-fed beef, and I believe the world would be better without corn fed abominations.

> (3) And im willing to pay for it.

If the true externalities of your consumption are not priced into the product then you're not really paying for it.

As a general rule this is the problem with our entire lifestyle. Very few people will deny that we do not life a sustainable life style, and yet almost none consider what this means.

The definition of unsustainable is that you are consuming beyond your ability to pay. If all the true future costs of our industrial life were factored into the products we consume, we could not afford any of them.

> If the true externalities of your consumption are not priced into the product then you're not really paying for it.

This is true, but other than showing up to the butcher with my money, what else can I do? Some _other thing_ needs to motivate these externalities into the price; not the consumer. The only thing I could conceive of doing is voting with my wallet, which I do when I buy grass-fed meat.

That's a silly argument because you being alive is "bad for the world".

But hey, I'm guessing you "want to live"?

So selfish.

The order is reversed

If an impact-free human being is the goal, the only solution is genocide.

This would be a pretty interesting point to engage with if you elaborated a little on why you believe this is the case and where you believe the GP said this.

If eating meat were bad for the environment, all predators who eat exclusively large prey would be extinct. We can have a discussion about how much meat per year production is sustainable, but I'm not going to start eating bugs.

Most predators that eat exclusively large prey don't number in the billions.

Any reason you are averse to eating bugs specifically?

I second this - cow based protein and cricket based protein both supply adequate value in an average human diet - why is there such a stigma against one versus the other?

I ordered a cricket steak and was a little disappointed.

But seriously its not stigma, its cuisine preference.

Mmm.... .0003 oz cutlets.

Crickets don't taste like much. But we also each chicken. It's all about how you prepare it.

I meant it as a joke about the size of crickets but I didn't write it very well.

I liked it :)

I had them fried and seasoned/salted iirc, they were surprisingly good little snack. I think it'd take a bit of time for most people to not be squeamish about casually eating them, rather than as a little novelty thing at a food festival.

It's cultural of course, but the funny thing is that kinda-insects are already culturally accepted food in the west – but only ones from the sea such as shrimp, crabs, etc.

I don't think it's a matter of "ew gross bugs" it's that there is always a strong undertone of "we should ban beef and replace it with bugs" in these conversations. That kind of thing gets people riled up, and it should.

Humans plus agricultural animals are 96% of all the mammalian biomass.

In light of these numbers I don't understand the environmental rationalization based on the diets of predators.

You do realize that mammals are the smallest class by biomass right? Well, other than Cnidaria but who counts them anyways.

Of course! But I felt the argument was mostly about mammals (how it's different to talk about predators meat and mans meat eating habits). Pointing out the scale of biomass is of course relevant to this discussion - there is so much of it, it's quite uninnovative humans should fixate on only few species.

And where in the comment thread was anyone saying

a) all instances of meat-eating is bad for the environment

b) you will need to start eating insects

Why does anyone in the thread need to have said it?

That's been in the news cycle for the last half-decade and major NGOs as well as governments now (EU approved bugs as food) are on board, saying it'll be necessary to feed everybody their protein in the future.

Why do you think that's not relevant?

Because they were responding to a person as if they had said it. You can't have a discussion where you just make up what the other person said and respond to that. And in fact you've done exactly the same. You've assigned a position to me that I haven't stated at all. It'd be like me ending this comment with: Why would you make such a inflammatory anti-muslim joke on Eid Al Fitr of all days?

The bug comment is not saying anyone said it. It's to demonstrate limits.

On a discussion about general religions, or future relevant policies, a comment like this would be normal, "I can respect Islam but I'm not going to stop eating pork".

And then I guess you would say "who said you have to stop eating pork?".

We can only guess the intent. You think it's a clever debate strategy, I think the person just wanted to provoke an argument.

Maybe. I have seen the bugs thing mentioned a lot before along with "pods" (increasingly small city apartments / tiny houses) meme.

Both are critiques of the handling of current challenges (food and housing).

To come full circle, "I support affordable housing, but I don't want to live in a pod"

;)

> If eating meat were bad for the environment, all predators who eat exclusively large prey would be extinct.

It's not that eating meat is inherently bad, it's the abomination we created to make it a world wide cheap commodity.

Just like a single car isn't a problem, the problem is the scale and the fact that we built our societies around it as if it was just an inevitable fact of life

> all predators who eat exclusively large prey would be extinct.

Lions don't have literal meat factories, don't treat animals like merchandise and don't use low quality processed meat as a filler for everything. This is such a low quality analogy. Look at that video and tell me it's just what large predators do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbgZQxd6J4&t=106s

> I'm not going to start eating bugs.

Nobody saying that, I'm 90% vegetarian and I never had a single bug in my life. I'm lifting weight three times a week and rock climbing twice a week with no issues too so here goes the "muh protein/energy" argument. The bug based food and ultra processed vegetarian/vegan options are just a marketing fad imho

Again, eating meat is fine, eating 500gr of low quality meat every single isn't, it's just about scale.

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