GlaxoSmithKline to pay 3B dollars for fraud (2012) | Hacker News Reader

GlaxoSmithKline to pay 3B dollars for fraud (2012)

justice.gov

37 pointseghanvat29 comments

"In the criminal information, the government alleges that, from April 1998 to August 2003, GSK unlawfully promoted Paxil for treating depression in patients under age 18, even though the FDA has never approved it for pediatric use.... The United States also alleges that, from January 1999 to December 2003, GSK promoted Wellbutrin, approved at that time only for Major Depressive Disorder, for weight loss, the treatment of sexual dysfunction, substance addictions and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, among other off-label uses."

Oh cool, I was one of those teens proscribed Paxil.

If corporations are people, then how come they don't get locked up for clear criminal violations?

I break the law in a criminal manner and I get to pay a fine and get sent to jail for a period of time. Corporations break the law which affect people ten thousand fold worse than I could ever do it and they just pay a fraction of their ill-gotten profits. Seems to me that if corporations were in danger of losing damned near everything for being in criminal violation of the law that their boards and chairmen might be less inclined to break said laws. At least that's what people who are for the death penalty as a deterrent would have me believe.

Because the entire purpose of corporations is limited liability. So people can commit crimes or just do terrible things without having to face consequences because 'the corporation did it'.

I would like to see corporations that commit manslaughter dissolved. Threat to human life should be an existential risk.

If a CSX freight train hits a car on the tracks, killing the driver, the entire company and the tens of thousands of people who get their paycheck there should all cease? That seems like a massive waste of everything.

There's a difference between human error and a criminal campaign to defraud people. GSK should not exist anymore in its current form. It should have been chopped into bits and sold for spare parts.

But the parent comment said manslaughter. Killing another human in a traffic accident is manslaughter.

I wouldn't say so. This sounds like an accident and I don't think there was intent.

If there was intent I would also say it's intent on the part of the driver (pending a mental health examination) and not on part of the company.

If the company instructed the driver to hit a car on the tracks they would be a criminal organisation and they should cease to exist.

In the case of GSK they committed fraud by lying to their customers. It's not intentionally killing someone but it's definitely endangering lives and it should cost more than 3B

There are cases where corporations should be given the 'death penalty' (disolve the corporation), but these should be rare. But in all cases where crimes happen, it is because actual human beings committed them, knew about them, and/or aided in them. Those people should be punished: financially (fines), professionally (fired and barred from working in that field or role, particularly CEOs and other leaders), and criminally (jail) in proportion to the crime they participated in.

This isn't complicated nor is it even controversial. Problem is that corporations have so much power that they can subvert the system to be sure none of the above ever happen.

The limited liability of corporations is not on crime, only on financials claims corresponding to the assets of the company, so that the personal assets of a company owner are not on the line for creditors claims. :-)

Otherwise, managers of a company, could do criminal activities like for example commercialize medical products for one purpose, but that were not medically approved for what they are being sold for and face no time in jail, just financial penalties...No...hold on..wait a minute!!

When your justice system is paid off by the oligarchy, the justice system will not punish the oligarchy. It's a slap on the wrist as well.

Centralisation of power is to blame.

A (more) honest justice system with independent judges could make sure the company can't trade for X years and / or pay significantly more, proportional to the damage caused. If they don't their reputation should suffer.

If corporations are people, then how come they don't get locked up for clear criminal violations?

Because the society you live in is predicated on a giant scam, basically.

This is from 2012. Any context as to why it was posted now?

Would be great to have the title updates as well.

The context is basically all on twitter. Recently Elon Musk said:

> Wellbutrin is way worse than Adderall imo. It should be taken off the market.

> Every time that drug has come up in conversation, someone at the table has a suicide or near suicide story.

here: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1520211168979259393

See also this tweet (which Elon replied to) which mentions the submitted link

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1520524301786435585

Oh, gross. This story doesn't support that batshit claim.

These kind of tweets are just weird. He portrays himself as such a technical science based guy, but then makes random comments like this that are bound to create controversy. It's like he doesn't realize that millions of people read his tweets.

It's stuff like this that really make me question his tactical and leadership abilities. I would think to build the kind of companies that he has built, one would need to be an excellent taction, know when you speak and when not to and know where to devote energy.

Maybe he is just playing at a level I don't understand.

>makes random comments like this that are bound to create controversy.

Controversy means engagement, engagement leads to fame, fame is worth a lot of money if your companies are publicly listed.

> but then makes random comments…It's like he doesn't realize that millions of people read his tweets.

Yes, people on the autism spectrum often lack social awareness and are unable to process the same social cue’s as neurotypical individuals.

Or maybe he just had a random thought that he shared on Twitter, as people are wont to do.

But there is a huge difference. When you have millions of people listening, at some point you have to realize that everything you say publicly has the potential to create big problems.

> It's like he doesn't realize that millions of people read his tweets.

Do those millions of people have any responsibility for what they do after reading said tweets?

I don't know about the rest of you, but whether Musk eats spinach has nothing to do with whether I will.

Of course they do. But do people in major leadership positions with worldwide reach bear any responsibility for what they say?

Humans are social creatures. I'm willing to bet most of the things you do or say are heavily influenced by what other people do or say. For you, Musk may not be one of those people. But for many, he probably is.

Elon's arbitrary and uniformed comments and anecdotes about Medical tech are as bad as anything Pharma is doing.

I wonder if he considers GSK's arbitrary promotion of their products as 'free speech' as well?

There's a staggering lack of self awareness with this guy on this issue.

There are zillions of fanboys and people 'influenced' by Musk and others, imagine a doctor prescribes 'ABC for depression' and a patient is reluctant, or worse, 'adamant' about the drug i.e. 'PeEPLE aRe dYInG!'.

It's a common problem now in the medical field.

If GSK can be held accountable for false or misleading information about something that 'causes harm' - then maybe so should Musk and others.

At the same time, obviously, drugs do cause harm and sometimes without even any malign intent, so it becomes problematic then for regular, legitimate, 'good faith' investigation as well i.e. why should we trust '60 Minutes' investigation more than the FDC, the Drug Maker, or Elong Musk? It's tough.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's a very serious issue we need to think about.

> why should we trust '60 Minutes' investigation more than the FDC, the Drug Maker, or Elong Musk? It's tough.

A major flaw in the culture is the disproportionate attention given to celebrity opinions.

Yes, that's populism. But our journalistic enterprises are also flawed, so is governance. So it's hard.

Free speech doesn't exempt you from committing crimes.

I'm against all regulations, I personally think we should have 3rd party companies reviewing products and the processes to create products and that anything should be sellable.

That said, if the customers have an expectation that products need to have a certain characteristics to be sold because of regulations - if you bypass those regulations you are committing fraud to your customers.

It would be equivalent to a company saying "The Health Reviewer Company X said our product is good for treating depression" when no such claim was made. It's pure and simple fraud - and they're free to say it and be sued into oblivion.

I really don't agree with this at all. I was put on antidepressants late in my teenage years for unexplained fatigue which was misdiagnosed as depression. I was first put on an SSRI - Lexapro. I went from 140 pounds to 180 in a month or two, and I certainly wasn't ravenously eating.

I went off an on it a few times, and I can see how other people would have a really hard time getting off of it. I was also put on Wellbutrin, and that had no effect on my weight (if not slight weight loss), it was better as far as sexual side effects go, and it was easier to come off of.

I now have a prescription for Adderall - again, for the fatigue - and I can see how some people could be addicted to it. Personally, I think it's a shame we can't just sell it over the counter. It's amazing for if you need to drive late at night, and it's the best damned cold medicine there is. If we could make an Adderall type stimulant where your brain downregulating receptors wasn't a factor a lot of people would lead significantly happier lives.

Now waiting for Netflix to make a movie about this .

Reply on news.ycombinator.com