Iron Salt Aerosol for Climate Control
ironsaltaerosol.com
ironsaltaerosol.com
"Then, about six thousand years after we were invented, it became clear that the Earth was entering one of its periodic Ice Ages. Left to its own devices this would not have been much of a problem, but it was a nuisance both we and the humans felt we could avoid. We built enormous sun-mirrors and seeded the atmosphere with greenhouse gases, and easily reversed the temperature dip. In fact, we succeeded much too well. Within a hundred years it became obvious that we had overshot our goal. But our efforts to cool the planet were not as successful as our efforts to warm it. Both ice caps melted, the sea level rose sixty meters, and vast land areas became sea floor.
This was a different nuisance, but it was not the final catastrophe.
The Antarctic continent had been crushed for millions of years beneath its three kilometer thick shield of ice; like a ship relieved of a heavy cargo it now wanted to rise, its lighter rocks buoyed up by the denser material of the Earth's mantle. And that lifting did not occur evenly. Great fault lines opened up into ranges of volcanoes as long-trapped magma suddenly found paths to the surface. New mountain ranges added their weight to the strain on the ancient continental plate as Antarctica regained its equilibrium. All the while a dense soot cloud blanketed the Earth and the brief summer of warming darkened into a cruel permanent winter.
The ice caps returned, but the southern snow accumulation did not stop the volcanoes. Glaciers raced toward the Equator, and after they met the oceans began to freeze. Later the atmosphere's carbon dioxide began to collect as snow on the poles. We had long since given up on saving our creators and worked instead to record their accomplishments and understand their biology before they were gone."
Maybe we should put some thought into reversing this massive artificial change we've made, before we suffer the sort of consequences described in the story.
1. Rock dust carbon sequestration on farm land: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31199271
2. Algae tech to amplify photosynthetic carbon capture https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178435
3. “High Hopes”: using airships to capture carbon ice in the upper atmosphere (stoners!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178667
And yes, let’s be curious! After all, many scientists are seeking to ban science in this area. Hard to believe. https://climateandcapitalism.com/2022/01/17/climate-scientis...
I can imagine humans a century from now wishing we had deployed them sooner and prevented so much unnecessary destruction.
That said I’m all for climate engineering. Being scared of it is like telling somebody obese that they should stick to sugary soda because nutrasweet could have unknown health side effects. Or teaching abstinence instead of safe sex education.
I know all sorts of buttons are being pushed with these analogies. But we obviously have a massive problem on our hands. There is a path out (reducing fossil everything) that we know is extremely difficult to implement, and by all current measures not going to work. So rationally we absolutely should try alternatives - at least TRY. And not assume they are bad while continuing to yell at the world that they need to be more virtuous.
For very human reasons, this can be easier said than done. People often don't like to admit they were wrong.
Does this mean that we should not explore new science and innovative solutions? Certainly not.
But before you start engaging in macro-ecological interventions, you better be damn sure that what you are doing is safe, now and tomorrow, both in first, second and nth order effects.
So, to your point, we really need to be investing in testing these different possibilities. Meanwhile, many scientists are trying to ban research in the area. I don’t get it. https://climateandcapitalism.com/2022/01/17/climate-scientis...
Sadly, now we don't have a choice between making a massive change or making no change. We just have a choice between leaving one change in place that we know is massively harmful, or using another method to reverse that change.
Am I wrong to think that it would be professionally toxic for a “real” climate scientist to work on a project like this?
And also methane. It's the first idea I've seen for doing that.
Source: https://www.technologyreview.com/2013/02/08/84239/a-cheap-an...
> David [Keith] thinks it is going to be easy and cheap, and I don’t agree,” says Robock. He estimates that several million tons of sulfur would have to be injected into the atmosphere annually to offset doubled levels of carbon dioxide, but if the particles clump together, “it could be many times that.”
I found a review of sulfate injection geoengineering studies[0] published in 2017 and with a quick read I can't find any mentions under millions of tons annually.
[0] https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/17/3879/2017/acp-17-3879...
> Current man-made and natural ISA emissions total over 100,000 tonnes and have many beneficial climate effects.
They're only talking about adding another 200,000. And...
> By directly copying the main planetary cooling mechanism from the ice ages, ISA has at least twelve identified cooling effects, presenting a balanced natural process.
So this also has geological history to draw on.
Despite this, they're currently only proposing a small trial, to make sure of safety for more trials. I don't think they're treating anything lightly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#Leaded_gaso...
In my opinion, though, it would take some pretty strong evidence that this would be actively harmful to dissuade me from wanting to run large scale experiments. Shoot, if leaded gasoline had the potential to slow down climate change it might even be worth bringing it back, considering the damage that climate change has already begun to cause and is projected to cause.
The chemistry sounds well understood, so probably not going to create exotic compounds that are bad for us.
What happens if oil companies lobby for extra coldness and cloud cover, as they know they will more than make up the expense in additional fuel costs? What if other vested interests get involved in what is bound to become a political scam? Is it possible that a slightly warmer climate will be of benefit to most people?
The chutzpah that the governance structure has in believing themselves righteous in determining not just the level of fines, or of the required licensing you need, or taxation, but now even the weather is unbelievable! Who gave them the right? Does say the US have the right to determine the weather for other countries? The whole concept would surely be illegal, if law was even based morality.. which its not.
It is less dangerous to take deliberate actions with intent than take actions without intent.
Every government on the planet is ALREADY determining what weather you and others have. Countries that burn large amounts of coal have an impact, as do countries that ban coal!
I agree that they are determining the weather already, and I don't like it. I don't want government to force cold weather on me. Do I get a choice on that? No. Neither do you.
All we get is the governance structure attempting to convince us of the validity and righteousness of their actions. If they do a good job, you will agree with what they say. That is propaganda.
I do not recognise that government can be righteous. All I see is forcible fine extraction from the citizens it purports to help. Climate change + technology will be an excuse to take away more freedoms (of travel, life style), levy more fines and licenses, while also justifying government intrusion and micro-management (how much water, electrity, travel credits). Greater gifts and power to those that already have power. Its a wheeze. The trick is to make you think you want it.
> I don't see how libertarian philosophy as employed in the 'small government' sense is compatible with global or climate catastrophes.
You might be conflating anarchists or anarcho-capitalists with Libertarians. Libertarians do believe in a government (with limited scope) that protects individual and property rights. If you believe in CO2 mediated climate change. having to deal with the damage of someone else's pollution falls squarely within those property rights. It is no different then if someone dumps a pile of toxic waste on your land or upriver.
The libertarian solution would be more along the lines of cap and trade and civil damages opposed to sin taxes and a Green New Deal.
> I do not recognise that government can be righteous. All I see is forcible fine extraction from the citizens it purports to help. Climate change + technology will be an excuse to take away more freedoms (of travel, life style), levy more fines and licenses, while also justifying government intrusion and micro-management (how much water, electrity, travel credits).
How would a carbon cap and trade be much different or more effective than a carbon 'sin' tax? I don't know if you've heard, but the SEC is planning on requiring publicly traded companies to disclose their risks to climate change and to report emissions. I see this sort of action as moving in a positive direction for once, but it feels too little too late.
> If you believe in CO2 mediated climate change.
It's a little beyond time for that, now isn't it?
Sin taxes dont necessarily solve any problems, but raise revenue that officials can spend on pet projects and caviar. They aren't morally or financially based in the damage done, and don't compensate those harmed.
Money from Cap and trade doesn't have to go to the government. Private manufacturers buy them, and individuals can sell them. one example is every American gets a 1 carbon credit and they can sell it on an exchange to manufacturers (or not).
>It's a little beyond time for that, now isn't it?
Take that up with people who don't believe in climate change. perhaps the "someone" upthread, not me.
> Money from Cap and trade doesn't have to go to the government. Private manufacturers buy them, and individuals can sell them. one example is every American gets a 1 carbon credit and they can sell it on an exchange to manufacturers (or not).
I think I've heard this referred to as a carbon dividend, but it's not necessarily the same. Anyways, thanks for the replies, consideration, and chat. It was pleasant.
The unfortunate reality is that the people that run government and corporations are the worst of us - parasites that are expert in extracting wealth from us, who then try to kid us that their abuse is in our best interests.
Those people who accept government are failing to recognise what poor psychology they have wrt government. They are the enablers of a narcissistic beast. You would NOT accept the behaviour that government does from a person, a person you would hold to account, but you justify and argue for government to be part of the solution! Amazing.
If you think those undertaking the abuse are going to resolve the issue they themselves present to you, you have it wrong. Until you recognise your frailties, and how you yourself are enabling their abuse, nothing will change. The promised land of a clean earth or whatever, will not be achieved while the worst of us are seeing opportunities to make more money and take greater control.
Now they want to change things, and they want to 'socialise' their tab. They think it would be great if you and I pay for their bad decisions. They just need to do really good public relations to make you want the bill.
If they do it right, they will make money off the environmental issues too.
The upshot will be that government and corporations will be stronger, while the citizen/consumer will be weaker.