I'm psyched either way. Instead of a faceless organisation with a CEO who can justify anything as his duty to the shareholders, now we will have a directly responsible figure. If Musk fails to deliver on free speech, his persona will be on stake.
His past actions show he isn't a believer in free speech and that almost all his principles are transactional. An example of this transactional behavior is calling out Saudi Arabia for lack of free speech while owning twitter which is interesting because he didn't have much problem with SA when they held 4.x percent of Tesla a few years back.
His beliefs appear to be built on a sand, not rock.
what are you even expecting here? he should've called them out for lack of free speech when they owned tesla? was there some instigating event during that time period which he ignored more than every other public figure? (i don't think we expect all public figures to make annual condemnations of every nation that does anything we consider appropriate. do we?)
as far as i know, he was snarking at saudia arabia's involvement in twitter because they commented negatively on his buyout proposal.
I expect them to also live under the same sort of rules and regulations they would have the rest of us live under.
Being honest and not lying often would be nice too.
>The economic prosperity that China has achieved is truly amazing, especially in infrastructure! I encourage people to visit and see for themselves.
Source: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1410413958805270533
And never, ever a word about freedom of speech issues in China. We all know why.
He is praising the economic growth of China, which is a fact. It did grow a lot.
What would he say?
"The economic prosperity that China has achieved is truly amazing, despite lacking freedom of speech"??
If he has offered any criticisms of the CCP's relationship with free speech, I apologize for missing it. Otherwise, it's hard not to be cynical about people like him that claim to care deeply about freedom of expression while playing up business interests in countries that do not share such a value.
If he added "free speech", it would've meant that you could achieve good economic growth even without free speech.
I'm sure that's not the narrative anyone in the western world wants to go with.
Tesla is a public company and anyone can buy stock. What did you expect Elon Musk to do if Saudi billionaires buy stock?
Hardly; nothing Elon Musk does will turn his fanboys off, and everybody else already has a "meh" opinion of him. There is no risk for him.
He says Netflix is woke without any citations but just had two kids with Grimes.
Elon is about making money and good at building support.
I don’t mind him buying Twitter per se but I do believe it will distract from his noble pursuits. The former Reddit CEO’s thread nailed it.
It doesn’t make any sense on its face other than as a way to con certain ideologies.
I have Netflix and I consume Black Mirror, Stranger Things, Squid Game, Bojack, etc. Calling Netflix woke is pure virtue signaling.
Maybe he’s planning to run for President?
I think it’s either that he’s upset with Grimes for leaving him and is being anti-woke in response OR he’s up to something else that’s yet to be revealed. I don’t think this virtue signaling matters to getting state legislatures to allow direct Tesla sales. Maybe it does in his mind?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2021/10/03/follow...
Making theories about the private lives of celebrities and what they demonstrate about what they really are like or are motivated by... seems pretty much like fanfic to me. Fun game if you're into it, but I wouldn't base my worldview on it.
That would be incredibly ambitious; getting 40 states to agree to that seems exceedingly unlikely.
I don't like to take chances in politics these days...
Who says that the richest man on the planet can't set up a lobbying/propaganda operation to secure him a shot at Presidency too? Especially a man who has a lot of very vocal, very dedicated fans all over the US? Have them e-mail and call bomb enough representatives and he'll get his will.
Meh, Netflix does produce a lot of low-effort woke content: Sense8 and the one where they stopped a school shooting through interpretive dance comes to mind.
I'd love to watch more high budget series where diversity is achieved without it being shoved in your face (all female Ghostbusters / all female oceans). They come across as pandering to their audiences instead of progressing societal views elegantly - hence why people say Netflix produces woke content and loses subscribers.
The goal should be subtlety and not wokeness. So far the only show (of Netflix) I've seen that hit these tones was Altered Carbon and it was aided a lot by the fact that it's set in a futuristic society where bodies are viewed as disposable sleeves.
> When Elon Musk Tried to Destroy a Tesla Whistleblower
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon...
Depending on where you stand, either will be bad to you and should be stopped. If you are building a company that moderates content, then you have to choose to be neutral, left leaning, or right leaning. Twitter started as neutral, arguably started to lean left, and under Musk many assume will start leaning right, or at least move more back towards neutral. We will have to wait and see.
IIRC when conservatives were complaining that twitter was reducing their reach, the refrain from the left was that twitter is a private company and can do what it wants. With Musk taking it over and taking it private, it is an even more private company, and if it becomes less obviously supportive of left-leaning thought and more tolerant of right-leaning thought, then the same argument applies, its a private company and it can do what it wants.
Maybe this will be the opportunity for a twitter competitor to pop up and vacuum up all of the disgruntled left. It would be interesting to see how an explicitly left-wing version of twitter would faire compared to the right-wing versions that have not been able to land.
Conservatives were only getting their reach reduced because they were being banned for posting racist content. Them screaming "shadowbanning" isn't a real thing.
There have been reports that US GOP politicians have been exempted from the algorithmic moderation because too many of their accounts are posting content indistinguishable from white supremest talking points such that they would get banned too.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-trea...
https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-algorithm-crackdown-...
People don't do citations in casual conversations.
Everyone agrees that Netflix is woke, the disagreement is weather wokeness is good or bad.
Netflix produces a lot of content. I would venture a guess that 99% of it isn't woke or anti-woke.
I thought conservatives preferred facts to feelings? This doesn't seem to be an opinion based on facts.
Do they? I don't. Mainly because I don't even know what that phrase means anymore. Any meaning the word "woke" HAD has been thoroughly lost as it has now become a stand-in word for any position some conservatives don't like.
This is factually wrong. I never even knew that there was a conversation about wokeness and Netflix. And I still don't understand why. Netflix just streams videos? Is this about the content they make/license or about their corporate/employee culture?
People who are pro/anti wokeness I think spend a lot more time thinking about this stuff than everyone else does.
They make a lot of content too
It'd pretty obvious Netflix is woke by their original content. It also tends to be boring now.
Sen..si..tive.
Netflix is extremely woke. If you doubt this, go watch Bridgerton (playing on my TV right now) and observe how half the people in regency England, including the Queen, are now black. Then go watch Manifest, and observe that in the final episodes one of the characters suddenly starts talking about how the government is "putting people in cages", quite out of the blue.
That's just the last two shows watched in my household. Manifest isn't as woke as Bridgerton but ... let's just say none of the characters are suddenly espousing the wisdom of Adam Smith.
Do you also get mad when the characters speak in modern english, or is that just fine?
Is it woke, or are you sensitive to race?
in the history of England, the United Kingdom and the whole Commonwealth there has not been a single instance of a king or queen being anything other than - here comes the dreaded word - white.
what's the point of making them black?
coming from Eastern Europe, it's like you made John Paul II black - or any of the patriarchs of Eastern Christian Churches. you can do it, but it's so far offbeat it isn't even funny.
in the US, I guess you could make Lincoln, Washington and Reagan black. they just weren't.
This is, in fact, (while completely beside the point) wrong. There are several non-white Kings and Queens in the history of the Commonwealth; e.g., Mswati III of the Kingdom of Eswatini.
> what's the point of making them black?
What's the point of alternate history and historically-inspired fantasy? That's a kind of big question. Do you literally think every film or show should simply depict life literally exactly how it actually occurred at some time in the past?
> in the US, I guess you could make Lincoln, Washington and Reagan black.
Or make Lincoln a vampire hunter.
(Of course, there isn't a long history of rumors that Lincoln actually was a vampire hunter taking as their starting point a too-literal reading of contemporary descriptions probably meant as throw-away insults.)
The complaints about Bridgerton seem to be highly-selective blindness to the entire concept that overtly fictional entertainment is typically something other than an exact recreation of history. (And/or assertion that race is somehow a uniquely unacceptable thing to fictionalize for unspecified reasons.)
“Woke” racists are the usual source of such race-swapping, because they’re obsessed with race and can’t simply tell a story as it makes sense.
The period in question isn't medieval England.
> can’t simply tell a story as it makes sense.
Using a literal historical setting unchanged doesn't make sense when the central premise of a story is taking a particular ahistorical (though historically rumored) fact proposition and dialing it to 11.
It's like making a complaint about the political intent of the X-Files because it shows unrealistic FBI procedures rather than telling the “story as it makes sense”.
This is so far out of touch it's unreal.
Woke people are currently trying to claim that maths education is racist because too many famous mathematicians are white. And you're claiming those same people would have no issue whatsoever with making a TV show about the history of Africa in which the Africans were all depicted by white people? It's hilarious and sad that people are actually reduced to trying to claim that.
And no, Bridgerton is not some fantasy or alternate reality. For goodness sake. Absolutely nothing in it is out of place in any way for the time except the races of all the actors.
> Woke people are currently trying to claim that maths education is racist because too many famous mathematicians are white.
I'm in the middle of "Woke America" and work on math curricula, and I've NEVER heard anyone assert this in one of the most liberal public school districts in the US. Is there someone that has said this before? I'm sure there is. Just like there are people on the right who believe Blacks don't have the intellect to learn math - neither represent the majority of these groups.
Now if someone tried to pass off white Africans as real history -- yes, you'd have complaints. But a fantasy story about it I think could be absolutely fascinating. Spoken from someone who self-identifies as "woke". Just in case you're keeping count.
You're statements would be funny, if they weren't so scary.
Is there someone that has said this before?
Oh boy, yes. Just search for 'racist maths' to find endless discussion of it. For instance here's Ontario editing maths textbooks to put woke nonsense at the start:
https://www.tvo.org/article/what-does-an-anti-racist-math-cl...
And California:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/focusing-on-the-correct-a...
Here's a British university jumping on the bandwagon:
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/04/11/decolonising-math-durh...
These are just random examples. There are many more.
Bridgerton is not a documentary, or even historical fiction, it's a romance set in a fantasy setting largely spun off of an extended what-iffing of a long-standing popular (but rejected by all current serious sources) rumor about Queen Charlotte.
Not sure how it's existence supports claims that Netflix is “woke”; sounds a lot like the fringe Christian Right descriptions of any fiction including magical elements (but not exclusively explicitly Christian miracles) as satanic.
Bridgerton is "woke" for two reasons: 1. Like the extremely lucrative romance novels it is adapting, it doesn't care what men think of it & the female characters are the protagonists 2. It includes interracial relationships
That's it. To the anti-woke crowd celebrating Musk's purchase of Twitter, romance = bad, racism = good and any media that disagrees is "woke".
All streaming platforms are first of all streaming capitalism.
Netflix funds content. Netflix licenses content and has a say on how future content from that IP is produced. They are not just a streaming platform. When you look at every new show as of late you see themes commonly associated with wokeness. Replacing characters with "BIPOC" (I hate this term) when adapting from source material when it clearly seems out of place. Mixing in subtle commentary about immigration, healthcare, "hate" speech, etc. Women are always the strong saviors, men are always the aggressive out of control beasts or they're docile homemakers.
You can see it in pretty much every show. Witcher Season 1/2 (immigration, replacing characters, men/women tropes), House of Cards Season 6 (all of the above), Altered Carbon, etc.
Unless they were only going to adapt actual fascists like Campbell, it is impossible to create science fiction without questioning the premises our society is based on. That's sort of the whole point of the genre. If one considers science fiction "woke" that says more about the person watching than it does about the company making Hillbilly Elegy and Cobra Kai and The Crown.
> questioning the premises our society is based on
There's a difference between doing this in a way that also tells a coherent story and one that just forces themes that don't exist into the story. One of those things is woke and the other one is not.
What Netflix experiencing is very similar to communist economy. Producers don't get paid for views hey generate and they have no market incentive. Unlike cinematic releases, you cannot go in loss on Netflix because deals are made upfront. There is no cost of failure to you. There is no real economic award or punishment from the market. So people just come in and slap whatever content they can to spend the available money.
It is misleading to state this in present tense.
Haha. He falsely accused british diver of being a pedophile on Twitter.
Musk doesn't care much about his persona.
This was crystalized for me when I came across an article detailing what they found from dumpster diving through Mark Zuckerberg's garbage. I mean, really?
https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/a-professional-trash-pick...
Who writes the rules about "public sphere"? If I donate to a cause that hopes to influence public policy, should I be doxxed? How much money? Does it depend on the cause I'm donating to?
If I buy a [legal private means of transportation] to travel, people should be able to track my whereabouts.
Is this limited to private jets? How about private boats? Single engine airplanes? Or is there a price cap? Is a $50k plane allow you to maintain privacy? 100k? What's the cutoff? Should it be inflation adjusted?
I'm just trying to understand
I recommend that you read this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki%27s_Wager
One does not need to answer literally every single edge case or scenario, to answer other more obvious questions.
Elon Musk is a public figure. A random person driving a car is not. And everything in between is a spectrum, and we don't need to know the exact specific cutoff point to know the obvious answers here.
Should spaceship flights be private? :)
What exactly a 'public figure' is depends on the given legal system. But its pretty clear that is a public figure, by any definition. He's among the most wealthy (some might say; obscenely wealthy) persons on the planet and thus enjoys outrages amounts of social and political leverage.
Of course he doesn't enjoy the same rights to privacy as you and me.
so yeah. you can't buy that kind of privacy unless you want a nation state air force on your six, or some kind of a patrol boat in case of a yacht.
Yeah probably. Publicly elected official is pretty up there on it being important to have transparency.
> If I donate to a cause that hopes to influence public policy, should I be doxxed?
No, you shouldn't.
> the rules about "public sphere"?
The rules are a spectrum. Someone can both believe that it is important for very large public figures to be transparent, and also believe that it goes to far to dox anyone who has donated 1$ to a political cause.
And there is no contradiction here. And if you are to imply that there is a contradiction, then you are engaging in Loki's fallacy.
No I don't know the exact specific point where someone becomes a public figure. But I do know that Elon Musk is a public figure, and a random person who donated 1$ to the ACLU is not a public figure.
You can search for people on google and get literally all of their information. Address, phone number, job, family, friends, and anything else that is public knowledge. Presented in a very easy to read format.
Why should the wealthy be special? Just because they have the money to stop it? I didn't opt in to having my information packaged nicely and presented to anyone who cares to search for me.
There are only a handful of ADS-B tracking networks out there. Most of them filter out certain airplanes if requested/paid by the owner (FR24, FlightAware). ElonJet exists solely at the mercy of ADSBExchange.com at this time.
No. You have a responsibility to be private, which can easily be neglected by underpaying the wrong people. C'est la vie!
In fact, once you have a jet you can strategically use it to deceive your movements.
And maybe you can hire people to protect your garbage, I dunno.
Interestingly, the courts have ruled that the ultra wealthy are "public figures" whether they act so or not, because of their "undue/oversized influence on public and social policy".
Honestly? Maybe not. He's the richest person in the world, and as such he's incredibly influential (and unelected). It's absolutely in the public's interest to know what he's using all that money and influence on, in a way that isn't relevant for your average median-earning Joe Schmoe. Once you get that rich you become more influential than a senator, and senators certainly don't have a right to privacy for their constituents to not know what they're up to.
On the private jet front, airplanes don't have privacy, necessarily so, because you need to know where they all are at all times to prevent collisions, protect airspaces, etc. So if you don't want people to know where you're traveling, don't use an airplane that has a 1-to-1 correspondence to you.
Do you believe privacy is a right?
I’d subscribe to an SMS or email feed of @ElonsJet if it was deplatformed. Higher level, I try to get any info available on Twitter in my email instead; it’s just a shitty message bus for my purposes.
It doesn't seem impractical that the government needs that data to operate effectively, but to require that a person (or plane) broadcast their information to a registry that is public seems to be the crux of the issue here.
The system fundamentally doesn't work if you try to make it non-public. The end result might end up being more privacy for Elon's jet, sure, but also way more mid-air collisions, as it would no longer be able to serve its function of letting a plane tell other planes where it is.
I suppose a decent, easy system for evading its tracking would just be for rich people to swap keys to their private jets. Or chartering. Or flying commercial. Etc.
I guess you don't believe free speech is a right since you don't think people should be able to speak about Musk's travel location?
"If you cross a certain threshold and lose your rights then they are not rights."
People cross thresholds and lose rights all the time. We put them in a right-less place called jail. I guess you think nobody has rights then?
I think it's a bit of a pointless concern to think about the equal privacy rights of a man who's worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
The whole "privacy is a human right" shtick is a virtue-signally scam. Privacy is your duty, nobody will give it to you for free. Complaining that the rest of the world won't ignore you after writing a Tweet that 500 thousand people liked is absurd. Musk had his chance to live a private life. He threw it away, and now he lives the consequences. Defending some multi-billionaire because he can't have his cake and eat it too is just ridiculous. I say that as someone with neutral feelings towards Musk overall.
Or consider someone pointing binoculars into our window from a a high vantage point so that he can watch my partner undress. If privacy is "our duty", should we be required to use closed blackout curtains on all windows at all times, or else it should legally be our own fault for being watched? My vitamin D is already low enough.
I absolutely agree that you give up certain aspects of privacy when you accept the privilege of being extremely wealthy. No argument from me there. But I still think Musk should enjoy the right of showering without someone selling uncensored photos of the event.
From a legal perspective, this depends on the country you're in. In the US where Musk lives things like Article 8 do not apply. Also, public figures in general are considered differently under various legal tests than private figures.
But tracking where he goes on vacation is really not relevant.
(Yes, the point about airplanes not having privacy stands, so the kid is obviously on the clear. It's just not a worthy social service.)
True, and he has also not passed a single law or regulation.
Rachel Maddow is also unelected, and likely has more influence than Musk does. Oprah also had tremendous influence, though she seems to have stepped away from the limelight recently.
Posting his airplane's position on twitter has nothing to do with aviation safety and everything to do with doxxing and harassment.
Actually, that's not true: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-spend...
In fact, a large corporation must make political contributions, otherwise they'll be targeted by the politicians (as Microsoft discovered in the 90's.) Large corporations are expected to pay tribute.
Microsoft overreached significantly and the US government 30 years ago gave them a slap on the wrist.
Corporations are creatures of law and exist and are structured solely at the discretion of government, except to the extent government delegates power to other entities.
So, yes, they are at the whim of politicians.
Politicians may be at the whim of the haut bourgeoisie as a class, and those are the same class of people who the joint stock corporation as a form disproportionately serves, but there aren't the same thing as corporations.
Not if you are deliberately aim to be a person of public interest.
Multi-Billionaires are persons of public interest by the power they wield given their wealth.
So; you probably don't have a right to privacy if you are as obscenely wealthy as Musk or Zuckerberg.
Most of these people have public itineraries...
FOIA wasn’t meant to make every record the government has public, it was meant to prevent the government from hiding things from the people. I can’t FOIA your social security number. I probably shouldn’t be able to FOIA the cell phone tracking data firehose that the FBI has, either. What I should be able to FOIA is the fact that the FBI has such a firehose.
If you're a public figure want to project a certain image of yourself, it hurts to be exposed as being the opposite of that.
[0] - not least because the source of the data is his own plane broadcasting its position
Would you like it if there is a twitter account that tweets everywhere you visit?
Elon can totally hire private investigators to follow the family members of a journalist just to prove that nobody would like this kind of accounts when they are the targets.
And that's good, I think - a better investment direction than NFT avatars.
> “I go like, Oh my gosh, Elon Musk just DM’d me: ‘Can you take this down? It’s a security risk,’” Mr. Sweeney said. “Then he offered me $5,000 to take it down and help him make it slightly harder for ‘crazy people to track me.’”
[...]
> Mr. Sweeney made a counteroffer to Mr. Musk, according to the screenshots of the exchange, saying that he would abandon the account if Mr. Musk upped the ante to $50,000. He said that he would also accept a Tesla Model 3, an electric car that costs more than $38,000, adding that he was joking.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-...
He received an offer to shut it down, then countered the offer. Then said he was joking. You're not a lawyer, by chance?
However, Karen’s car is not required to have a transponder, so the location of it isn’t public information. Therefore, it’s actually nothing like the Elon Musk plane situation. Hope this helps!
Aircraft transponders, which are legally required to broadcast on public frequencies, aren't remotely similar to whatever cell based surveillance trickery you're thinking of.
> The owner of the account is a stalker attempting to extort his victim.
Extortion is a criminal offense and stalking can also be one, depending on its severity. So that means you're the one who brought crime into the discussion (with wrongful accusations, in my view).
Reality is, governments and the airline industry could make this system be sufficiently private if they wanted, or at least a lot harder to abuse. There's no particular reason personal details of jet owners have to be linked to the radio transponders.
He's not tracking a person's movement. He's tracking a vehicle, via public information, traveling through public airspace.
With opinions like these coming from the Elon army, Twitter is going to get worse.
Elon army? Where did you get that from?