Norway convinced Japan to love salmon sushi (2015)
npr.org
npr.org
On the other hand, cheap salmon is reliably good for the same reasons the expensive toro is.
I prefer sake to akami and chutoro; it is hard to beat otoro.
I can see how sake is a gateway fish! But the implication seems to be that instead of eating salmon, for the real deal we should be eating bluefin. That seems dumb; both salmon and bluefin are pretty boring, they all occupy sort of the same place in Japanese cooking as sesame chicken does in American Chinese food. Everything else is better!
Sake: domestic fish, is never sold as sashimi
Salmon: imported fish
I dont know if its a folk wisdom but the following article claims that when they hear the word sake they think of that old native salmon.
Sort of like when you might call any old man 'Gramps' but when you hear 'Gramps' you think of your own grandfather?
https://tokyoflyfishing.com/fish/chum-salmon-sake-or-shiroza...
I've found salmon and tuna can approach the level that might be passable in Japan but everything else (swordfish, mackerel, crab, clam etc etc) are whole leagues better in Japan than outside.
I currently live in Singapore where the sushi is actually pretty good but definitely not as good as Japan.
For me, a nice raw tuna can be absolutely amazing.
Something about the flavour and texture just pops in my mouth with delight.
Tastebuds be weird, heh.
I used to think I hated tuna sashimi. Oftentimes it ranged from slightly metallic to that stereotypically overly fishy flavor, and had zero mouthfeel except for what I could describe as a watery gel.
Then I tried a piece of highly marbled tuna. It was like a buttery slice of steak—a meaty flavor that filled my mouth. Every piece of similarly marbled tuna has tasted just as good.
Generally, salmon sashimi has some good fatty marbling as well, so I think that also contributes to its good flavor. Cheap tuna cuts have virtually zero fat and so there’s no flavor to be had.
In singapore I avoided buying salmon due to it being 100% farmed salmon. Instead I paid extra for New Zealand King salmon which is partially farmed, better tasting, healthier.
NZer here. I believe the salmon we export is 100% farmed.
The advantages of buying from NZ is that our quality controls are mostly reliable, and our water tends to be pretty clean, and we have reasonably good environmental controls. We mostly farm Chinook/King salmon.
As a sweeping generalisation, NZers are mostly honest, and we tend not to hustle to the point of deception. The cheapest brand of sliced translucent cold smoked Salmon is NZD10 (USD7) for 180g (0.4lb) at the supermarket. Note that NZ prices for most supermarket food is very expensive compared with the US, except sometimes are primary products can be cheaper.
Salmon is bloody expensive in Singapore.
https://songfish.com.sg/product/salmon-fillet-skin-on-fresh/
https://songfish.com.sg/product/new-zealand-king-salmon/
200g of NZ King Salmon is ~$15 (16.51 NZD)
While 400g of Norway Salmon is ~$18 (19.81 NZD)
When we were introducing my daughter to solids, the only meats she would eat was Chicken and Salmon. I only bought NZ King Salmon.
There are several different species of salmon, and the heuristics are dependent on the species. I eat a lot of salmon (I live in Seattle where fresh high-quality salmon is abundant) but largely restrict myself to northern Alaskan King and Sockeye. Those two species of the fish are both premium examples at opposite ends of the character spectrum.
As sashimi, a fresh salmon from a top-quality fishery is quite good. It is often difficult to find top-quality salmon at sushi joints in many parts of the world. Whether or not random salmon or random tuna is better depends on where you are, often as a function of how close you are to high quality fisheries.
Here’s hoping we find ways to restore their populations. It’s gotten to the point that I practically feel guilty eating them, knowing the fishery is practically imploding.
Might be worth trying out if you haven't.
More info here:
Yeah wow well there you go. You know Norwegians own most salmon farming in Chile, don't you?
And let me say also, this validates government export offices. In fact I visited the Japanese Government export office in Santiago, they gave me really valuable information about exporting to Japan where the market for wasabi was at the time. What do you know, you pay taxes and you get back something for it?
I must say, I didn't even know Chile "produced" salmon until I found that graph, so nothing would surprise me. However, wikipedia pointed me to https://www.terram.cl/2018/11/grupos-extranjeros-pasarian-a-... which doesn't seem to confirm what you're saying, but my spanish is rusty.
This is slightly misleading. Salmon sushi in japan might not have been a thing prior to norway's marketing campaign, but there's plenty of evidence of salmon sushi being a thing outside of japan[1] and being at least somewhat popular. You could argue that if it weren't for acceptance in japan it wouldn't have been a "staple", but that seems a bit tenuous when it was already on magazine covers.
My understanding is tuna, especially the premium kinds like blue fin that show up in sushi, is loaded with mercury, PCBs and a lot of other bad news. The deleterious effect (of PCBs in this case) is already showing up in orcas that eat large prey like tuna https://phys.org/news/2018-09-pcb-pollution-threatens-killer...
The FDA is very clear on this, even if they think the amounts are mostly of concern to pregnant and lactating women.
https://www.fda.gov/food/consumers/questions-answers-fdaepa-...
On the flip side, farmed salmon doesn't have the health benefits of wild, because they don't eat things with a lot of omega-3's.
> Overall, they found close to half of the samples were mislabeled (43 percent), and rates of mislabeling were especially higher in restaurants vs. grocery stores (67 percent, vs. 20 percent). The most common form of mislabeling was farmed Atlantic salmon being represented as” wild” salmon. These trends persisted when comparing all of their salmon data (466 samples) spanning over four years.
Without knowing how much salmon is consumed at restaurants via grocery stores, it's hard to validate that "most" wild salmon is actually farmed.
It was insanely beautiful, pink flesh, lots of fat. Rarely have anything that good.
In Norway the salmon farms spend the entire life in the farm. Are fed lots of antibiotics because they get sick. And are overpopulated.
Nz. Is very strict because of 1 person messes up it ruins the reputation of the entire country.
I worked at the University library when I studied, I remember there was a ton of outdated books from the early development of salmon aquaculture. Salmon farming didn't even succeed until the late 60s, it took a lot longer to make it profitable. They tried a lot of wild stuff, some of it was ecologically questionable to put it mildly (like "havbeite", the idea of forgoing enclosures entirely and just release the smolt to sea, hoping to catch it later).
But regulation has caught up to the industry somewhat. Of course, now the Norwegian owned industry does a lot of the bad stuff it's no longer allowed to do in Norway in Chile instead.
New Zealand has a legit below-the-radar farmed salmon business, mostly because their salmon has quality unlike any other farmed salmon I've experienced.
There is a wild / higher grade salmon available, even Japanese domestic salmon exists.
how do you do that? My expensive freezer only goes down to -30 when set to maximum cold (and then it becomes really loud!)
> Freezing and storing at an ambient temperature of -4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time), or freezing at an ambient temperature of -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at an ambient temperature of -31°F (-35°C) or below for 15 hours, or freezing at an ambient temperature of -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at an ambient temperature of -4°F (-20°C) or below for 24 hours are sufficient to kill parasites. Note that these conditions may not be suitable for freezing particularly large fish (e.g., thicker than 6 inches).
> Brining and pickling may reduce the parasite hazard in a fish, but they do not eliminate it, nor do they minimize it to an acceptable level. Nematode larvae have been shown to survive 28 days in an 80° salinometer brine (21% salt by weight). Fish that contain parasites in their flesh may also contain parasites within their egg sacs (skeins), but generally not within the eggs themselves. For this reason, eggs that have been removed from the sac and rinsed are not likely to contain parasites. Trimming away the belly flaps of fish or candling and physically removing parasites are effective methods for reducing the numbers of parasites. However, they do not completely eliminate the hazard, nor do they minimize it to an acceptable level.
In the US, all fish intended for raw consumption must be frozen in one of two ways that kill any parasites.
In Japan, this is not required.
Salmon is extremely high compared to tuna in parasites. In fact if you eat it regularly cooked, you've almost certainly seen little white worms at some point (though you may have dismissed it as just fat or something). I've found them even in farm raised salmon.
So in an environment where there's no freezing of fish to kill parasites, it's not particularly surprising that fish that more frequently ends up with parasites isn't popular.
In fact, just read over this Wikipedia page, which hits everything from salmon being high in parasites to the impact on raw consumption:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_disease_and_parasites
A choice quote: "A study in Seattle, Washington showed that 100% of wild salmon had roundworm larvae capable of infecting people."
Frankly parasites, I don't want parasites in any capacity. I don't want them dead I want them gone, no cadavers either.
Like other posters are saying, better to eat no fish.
I don't doubt this but who imports non-flash frozen fish? All the tuna and salmon I've seen at auction/market is flash frozen on the boat.
How Norway Created Salmon Sushi - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10243823 - Sept 2015 (88 comments)
Aside, but like most other foods old or new it will have its fair share of TV airtime with celebrities making loud faces about how delicious it is ;)
Or what distinction do you make between "it is enjoyed" and "it is loved"?
[0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/05/magazine/sush...
Which states differently?
I'm not saying that this salmon poses health risks to consumers. But the Norwegian aquaculture industry does use a lot of pharmaceuticals in the open sea water. And the high density contributes to a high propensity for ectoparasites. Both of these things pose an environmental hazard. (I'm a Veterinarian by the way...)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004484861...
I most want to point out that Norwegian farmed salmon isn't as glorious as it was stated. I'd like to add that this is a predatory species and needs to be fed mostly fish protein to grow profitably. This in turn means the food for the farmed salmon is usually fished out of the sea, too. This is certainly not sustainable and will hopefully be replaced by insect protein (soy doesn't work). But it needs regulatory action, as it is more expensive than harming the ocean...
And FWIW, Japanese expats I know, not necessarily living in Seattle, seem to confirm that the sushi quality here is exceptional. This is largely a product of geography, being relatively close to both Alaska and Japan.
Anyone trying to tell you they are selling you never frozen sushi is likely lying or violating food code.
See FDA Food Code 2017 3-402.11 Parasite Destruction.