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Comment by ThePrankster | Hacker News Reader

Anecdote: I am Gen Z. This story holds true for my parents and I.

My dad was a solider in Latin America, my mom, a nurse. Their job required, at most, 2 years of education beyond High School.

I am a data analyst, with a Bachelor's and a Master's. I earn more than they both did together, adjusted for inflation. My friends are in "specialized jobs" as well -- some even being doctors and lawyers. We still have zero hope of affording a house, let alone retirement.

Edit: for anyone wondering, my education was completely free as in my country college is free and I took my Master's in a Nordic country, where education is also free (I worked there to support myself too).

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> We still have zero hope of affording a house, let alone retirement.

This is ridiculous. If that’s actually true, move. Lower your expenses. Figure out something else.

Moving thousands of miles sucks. Leaving all of your family, friends, and work is an enormous disruption to a life.

Life isn’t easy. Sometimes you have to make hard choices. What’s your point?

It is still reasonable to call it a broken system even if "move to Idaho" is an option.

It’s not broken just because it fails to deliver a luxury you want, when and where you want it, for the price you want to pay.

Having unreasonable expectations would be okay, but people are calling it broken because a generation before this had this luxury but pulled the ladder behind them. We are supposed to progress forwards, not backwards.

Housing prices were unreasonably low, people realized it, and now we ran out of housing inventory in the very desirable parts of the country. Still plenty of housing in other areas.

Manhattan used to be very cheap, but it hasn't been that way for at least 30 years. Too many people want to live there now. Basic economic rules of supply and demand dictate the prices.

The only solution is to not play the game. You want a house, buy it where you can afford. There's no magic fairy that will sell you a standalone house in Manhatten on a cashier's salary.

No house in Manhattan on a cashier’s salary has always been the case, that is not something that has regressed. You should check what areas people complain about being unaffordable before dismissing it as “of course NYC and California are expensive”.

You've inspired me, I'm going to make the hard choice and knock over a bank to build a better life. The police can't deal with all the crime these days, so I'd say the cost/benefit analysis is pretty good.

Leaving your support network while already struggling means that things like free childcare from family now needs to be made up for with professional childcare, career prospects can be lower without your professional network, and should you fall on hard times, like being laid off, divorced or getting sick/injured, you can end up in a much deeper hole than you would in place with a support network that can help you get back on your feet.

Okay, then if the solution to unsustainable circumstances isn’t making changes to your own circumstances that are well within your power, what is the solution?

Discouraging home buying as an investment, which seems to be behind the crazy rise in home prices over the year, would be a good start.

He literally just said “my dad was a soldier in Latin America”.

Apparently moving countries is good enough for his dad but another city in the US I asking too much?

Wow, I had actually never considered "figuring something else". Thanks for this amazing insight. It's almost as useful as telling someone with depression to "just be happy".

Rent in my town is one of the cheapest among bigger cities and I already live very frugally (public transit, only shop for groceries on sale and healthy food, don't go out to parties, don't drink, no addictions, no online subscriptions, only free hobbies + gym). GenXers and Boomers left a shitty world for Gen Z and, for some, life is just not the fairy tale you are used to - sorry mate.

They expect you to go move somewhere cheaper where your career prospects are stocking shelves at Walmart or serving food. Maybe if you're lucky, you could get a job for $36k from the one company in a 200 mile radius that's still hiring in your industry, but is on life support and won't be around in a decade. Also, please ignore the fact that its competitors have all gone out of business or left for better prospects in higher CoL areas, as well.

It's not so much a solution as it is a sneering dismissal of real problems that they don't want to hear about anymore.

Do you believe people deserve an easy office job, high pay, and the ability to buy a home in the cultural epicenter of their choosing?

How, exactly, are we going to supply all of that to the firehose of people graduating with mostly-useless degrees and job skills?

Yes of course people deserve that. There is incredible wealth everywhere. Society increased productivity and efficiency so much that workweek should be 3 days.

All the fruits are going to small number of people in the top. You say mostly useless degrees… what about all the mostly useless things - the lamborghinis? the never ending houses? the gimmicks, gadgets, iphones every 6 months…

Why do we supply that and dont supply basic living conditions to everyone?

How are you going to provide everyone ever bigger and bigger single family homes in ever smaller and smaller parcels of land? You must push some people out. That's the nature of big things. They expand and repel.

Why? Because the medium of exchange function stops the moment economic growth stops growing at the rate of productivity. This is because the richest individuals are hoarding employment opportunities and get to save money against the will of the rest of the population. If one guy is doing the work of two, then one person has nothing to do. We grow the economy two fold, so there is enough to do for everyone, even though there are enough products and services for everyone. It's that stupid.

> cheapest among bigger cities

You’re not forced to live in a bigger city.

You weren’t forced to uselessly over-educate yourself.

You aren’t forced to stay where you are, in a dead-end, complaining about how it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic of you genuinely believe this..

Either way, telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstrap when a house costs over a million dollars and wages have stagnated for decades is very uncharitable.

I live in Canada, at this rate owning a house is a dream long gone for many people include me.

You realize there are areas with houses well under a million dollars? I live in a very nice area, and even here there are $450K houses. And if you go further away, there are much much cheaper houses.

Go on Zillow and do some basic research.

You realize those areas are nowhere close to the jobs? If you're looking for a job in Toronto, the closest place with an actual house under $450k is likely Windsor, which is around five hours away. Across southern Ontario right now the average price of a house is roughly a million dollars. Five hours is much too far to commute for work on a regular basis and a lot of jobs still require you to be there in person. Some things simply can't be done remotely.

I know things are tough right now but it will get better. Prices won't stay this high forever. They always come down eventually. Be patient and save your money. You'll find something when the time is right. I gave up on a house years ago and set my sights on a condo. Those are relatively affordable in comparison.

You are right. I chose to stay in a middle size city because there are jobs and rent is not too high.

My education is none of your concern, especially because I actually got paid both for my Bachelors and Masters, due to academic performance scholarships. It cost me nothing and still paid better than most jobs.

I’m not in a deadend, I do very well, I just have zero prospects of retiring or owning a house. I’m not complaining though, I got it better than many people. I’m grateful for that, and especially even more grateful for not having to be someone so bitter like you. Have fun dying soon of old age in your rich life, with no friends or family bc none can stand your boomer personality :)

How much do you earn? Sorry if it’s rude, I’m genuinely just curious, I figured you’d make enough as a data analyst in any decent-COL living city to be fine

In the US many data analysis jobs are at tech companies, so they require living in expensive cities and competing with software engineers for homes, but pay only like 1/3-1/2 of what software engineers make.

I am late late GenX, and I have no higher education, own my car out right (late model pretty nice), I will pay off my home in the next 5 years, and I financially support one of my parents. I make less than 6 figures so I would not consider myself to be "rich"

I think the key for me is the fact I choose not to incur educational debt getting a BS and/or MS, I also choose to live in a non-coastal region that does not have crazy housing prices. I also had lots of support from my parents* when I was younger so establish myself financially (like enabling me to be able to save for the down payment on this home)

I worked very hard and now make a pretty decent wage after decades of working lower wage jobs.

* To be clear this is just basic support like a stable roof over my head, the were lower middle class as well, their combined income was less than 6 figures, we had a basic home, food, etc but no luxuries, no vacations, one of the reasons I did not go to college was I did not want debt, and the family had no money for tuition

> * To be clear this is just basic support like a stable roof over my head,

Over the course of a few years that's well into 6 figures of support

I agree, but I struggled with the wording to covey that I did not come from a wealthy family with a trust fund or something like that

We are a "normal" midwest 2 parent household, in the 50th percentile of income band for the region.

My over arching point is there has to be some personal accountability. it is easy to be a victim, blame the system, blame rich people, blame everyone but yourself for your own circumstances.

Life is hard and often unfair, and I freely admit I am one serious illness away from bankruptcy, there are things we need to do change the system in many ways

However alot of the talk I see about "solutions" will in reality just make things worse and further push victim culture that i see today.

I don't have all the answer, but "woe is me, life is soo hard and unfair" attitude I see I can assure people is not a solution

>it is easy to be a victim

When you are one major accident or illness away from losing everything you have saved is kind of makes sense to blame those who have fought so hard to make sure typical people don't have access to effective health care at a reasonable cost.

illness or injury yes, as that would prevent me from working, and earning the money I do today

Medical costs however would not the cause of my problems as even in the worst case I would be protected by bankruptcy laws would would allow me to discharge my medical debt while keeping my primary home, and a significant chunk of my personal possessions.

Not if you are injured or dead because you couldn't afford the medical care necessary to fix you / cure you / treat you on an on going basis.

Affording a house in which geographic market?

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