Ask HN: What are you using for 4 axis CNC and laser?

If you want parts, outsource the manufacturing.

If you want a new, expensive hobby, look into CNC machining. Don’t expect cheap parts, though.

> I am willing to go into the mid 4 figures for a good product(s) that can help me with both bar furniture trim, aluminum fittings, and laser engraving.

Mid 4 figures is about where you’d end up with an entry level 3-axis CNC, workholding accessories, tooling, and all of the other accessories you’ll need to set up the machine and cut aluminum correctly.

That budget is way too low for 4-axis and laser engraving.

I’d outsource the parts and start with a small $3-6K hobby CNC from a known brand (Bantam or PocketNC for example). Learn the basics of machining, CAM, workholding, and other basics on small parts on a small machine, then decide if you want to go bigger.

> and it's tough to wade through the many, many hours of semi-honest use/reviews when I have the day job and fam.

If you don’t even have time to research and learn the basics, you definitely won’t have time to learn how to properly operate a machine and CAD/CAM. I think you’re underestimating the work that goes into even basic CNC machining.

Thanks - that sounds like the General Aviation adage "If you want to build; build. If you want to fly; buy".

However, so much of the work seems to be building experience in the software and getting good at speccing the parts.

How do you get good at even ordering a part so you don't waste tons of time and money?

>If you want parts, outsource the manufacturing. >If you want a new, expensive hobby, look into CNC machining. Don’t expect cheap parts, though.

This 1000%.

If you’re at the point that you think you need custom machines parts for a brewery, then you probably need an interior designer (if these are aesthetic) or a brewing consultant (if these a functional).

I’m all for hobby cnc’ing! I have a probotix and LOVE it! But until you are a “machinist” don’t count on cnc being more than a hobby, not critical path.

> If you don’t even have time to research and learn the basics, you definitely won’t have time to learn how to properly operate a machine and CAD/CAM. I think you’re underestimating the work that goes into even basic CNC machining.

Yup. Time is money. If this is a commercial enterprise, get a professional solution. If this is a hobby project, explore your hobby any way that is interesting to you.

Also, I’ve never seen a brewery with a cnc machine. There is likely a business reason for this.

You should go to Boss Laser for the laser cutter/engraver and CNC masters for their Baron CNC mill. Both of these have 4th axis options. I have a ton of experience setting up engineerong labs for big engineering and medical device companies. I'd be happy to chat further and offer any advice or help. I have a website with contact info, just Google my name.

Thanks. I'll give a search for you.

The Baron seems nice, but maybe more bulk than I need (but not too much more). I mostly need to make alot of custom plates, flanges, and mounts so we can get various pieces of equipment fixed into a brewing pipeline with automated valves I am wiring together. I have already worked out a pretty good 915mhz radio and valve network so I can automate a number of steps in the brewing process. I just need a bunch of custom fittings. These can be aluminum, so a lighter weight and smaller sized CNC mill seemed like the right spot.

Any thoughts on a more table/benchtop sized unit?

I've had a CNC Taig mill for 20 years, they're great small units. There are plates you can buy to bolt the Sherline 4th axis' to the taig bed, and even with end stocks and trunion plates.

The Taig looks much more shop-friendly, and it's nice to see the Boss name pop up twice - thanks.

I've dealt pretty heavily in this area (Bought and operated several CNCs over the years) Your price point is going to limit your machines to almost exclusively Chinese imports

Lasers: Boss laser imports machines from China and provides great American-based support. If you can figure things your self, check out Cloudray laser. They ship straight from China; keep in mind the customs/shipping risks. I've purchased from both before. If you're not running production jobs, 75W C02 should be fine. I prefer 150W RECI C02 laser tubes. The go-to Chinese controller is made by Ruida. At the end of the day; most of these Chinese laser brands all have the same part suppliers, just different levels of QC and quality assembly. I'd avoid Glowforge and similar brands. They are a great for first time users at home; but I'd be more worried about work volume, laser power, and future spare part availability. I know quite a few people that outgrew their Glowforge-like machines and went with bigger more industrial imported lasers.

Purchase Lightburn for sending jobs from the PC to the laser.

Routers: I have a few friends that have a larger Shapeko-like machine that works well for Etsy-like products. Think embossed cutting boards, wall art etc. Granted there part is size like 12"x 24". The machine isn't stiff (compared to industrial units); but it gets the job done. Whatever machine you purchase you'd want to stick to linear guide rail motion system for all the axis; avoid the roller-wheel style motion systems if possible. If I personally was going to buy a new router in that price range; I'd buy either an Avid Pro machine or import a chinese machine straight from Alibaba. Start with checking out OMNICNC in China. Depending on your location; check out classifed ads, or talk to some local signmakers. They might be selling their older US-made Multicam machines for cheap.

I can give much more specific recommendations based on your production rate and part size/features/materials.

EDIT: Mirroring what other people are saying. If you just need some parts just to get brewery going, then I'd sub this out to someone else. If you have time, money, desire, love to spend many hours and thousands of dollars to learn the art of manufacturing, then go for it. But I'd recommend to solve the goal at hand first. Your brewery.

I think you're mostly right here.

Re Lasers: I've seen Lightburn come up a few times and given that canning and labeling are more core to the business (and the constraints on our space), I will probably go ahead here. Boss and Cloudray look like much better vendors than what I've seen so far. Most of the desktop laser brands I've founds seem like thin website wrappers over an Alibaba/Amazon backend, and I don't mind paying extra for support.

Re CNC: I also think the general advice here is probably right. My needs are pretty simple so the price and seemingly high flexibility of Shapeoko-level stuff tempts me to DIY, but it's also probably easier to outsource. I am just not sure where to look for a real-world machine shop that can mill these for me. If you can think of a reliable forum, online community, or vendor that doesn't force me to learn just as much about designing pieces as DIYing, I'd love to know.

Thanks all.

You have two options. Call up a local machine shop (check Google), ask if they do one-off parts. (They probably won't); then ask them if they have any solid recommendation for a local small-time machinist that enjoys one-off work. They probably have a couple on speed dial for jobs that aren't worth their time.

You can also checkout cnczone.com , practical machinist and a number of hobby/home machinist Facebook groups.

I built a CNC router for machining enclosures, from a kit. The machine weighs about 200kg. I built it because I needed to machine specific types of materials and wanted a high RPM spindle and special cutters to achieve certain finishes. I was not very concerned about achieving crazy tolerances. Ready to go serious CNC mills were going to cost 50K+ and were not built for the type of parts I wanted to machine. The machine ended up costing about 5K and I spent a month building it. It was a crazy difficult process and I cannot recommend this to anyone. The result is great, but then I realized I have no time to machine stuff and that it is hardcore labour even if you are not doing the actual work, the machine is. I also have to point out that the major hurdle is mounting and holding parts, and switching tools. So if you are serious about production you need really good/fast tool changers and advanced work holding tools, and automatic tool measurement/touch off. Having to screw around with workholding and switching/touching off tools eats away massively at your time. These days if I would buy a new machine I would go for a brother speedio or robodrill (rumoured to be used for the apple watch). But I would not buy a new machine unless I could afford someone to operate it. So TL;DR - don't build a machine unless you have a really good reason to do so, and realize that machining is labour intensive work that can potentially be very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

In your case it sounds like you don't need very high precision parts and the parts are not very complicated? Perhaps you can go to a metal shop to have these made and you might not even need CNC machining. In any case, I would seriously just consider outsourcing the parts and not buying/building a machine and doing this yourself.

I think y'all are right that the aluminum work should be outsourced - though I'd love to see the machine you built or details if there's a link.