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Comment by nottorp | Hacker News Reader

US thinkers have no idea what a social safety net is so they draw their conclusions without taking that option into account.

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"US thinkers" is a ridiculously broad term. There are plenty of Americans who think and know what a social safety net is. Some of them know about it because they read, some because they think, some because they've travelled, some because they've lived in countries with a stronger social safety net than the USA. What is true in the USA is that there are people who know what a social safety net is and are adamant that we should not have one, and who are willing to get much closer to actually say that than most of their equivalents in Europe (though this has been changing a bit in recent years).

> "US thinkers" is a ridiculously broad term.

It's a pretty good generalization, however. I see it over and over again in US political discussions a total, and possibly (probably?) deliberate, blindness to the idea that health card could be socialized, UI and welfare could be better, access to education could be universal and things like job training or maternity leave could exist, etc.

Then you're not connecting with the US "left" (probably not a coincidence). The Nation is both the oldest continuously published weekly magazine in the US (founded in 1865) and consistently represents different parts of the US left. Jacobin is another good example.

It is true that if you watch network or cable TV from the US, you will not find the actual left represented, other than perhaps Bernie Sanders. What they will call "the left" is mostly centrist Democrats whose position can be summarized as "things as basically OK but we need to be nicer in a few specific ways".

> Then you're not connecting with the US "left" (probably not a coincidence).

I doubt the US left knows what left is :)

> Then you're not connecting with the US "left" (probably not a coincidence).

Interesting assumption. I'm far to the left of most Canadians, let alone Americans.

> It is true that if you watch network or cable TV from the US, you will not find the actual left represented, other than perhaps Bernie Sanders.

That was my point, albeit poorly expressed; very few actual leftist thinkers get any kind of mainstream exposure so all "US thinkers" are right of centre unless you specifically go looking for the left leaning ones.

If you had said "US people", I'd have agreed with you (at least to a greater extent". But I took "US thinkers" to be a subset of "US people", differentiated by ... well, thinking :) This is not meant to be patronizing - a lot of people just don't think much about politics, policy, philosophy, ethics, for whatever reason.

However if someone is in that subset that does, the chances are much better that they are aware of left-ish ideas.

To think that the US has no social safety is also a common trope. Food stamps, medicaid, public & section 8 housing, SSDI, EI, etc. in combination with the unique opportunities allowed by American society to get back on your feet (low unemployment and barrier to entry). Americans in general have no idea how "humble" life can be for the European lower classes. Fun fact: Canada and the US have about the same homelessness rates on a per capita basis.

> Americans in general have no idea how "humble" life can be for the European lower classes.

Don't think said lower classes live in fear of a "major health event".

My understanding is that the poorest people are covered by medicare or get their fees waved (hospitals won't refuse to treat someone needing critical care). That is not "zero social net". Nobody is in fact jealous of the American healthcare system though. Meanwhile, in most countries in Europe, people live in fear of having to be put on wait lists that extend from months to years, or just plain being unable to access any care at all due to said systems being overloaded at times due to having much less overall slack (for example during covid).

Waitlists can be visibly bad in the UK but if you read German or French papers you’ll see complaints about “wait lists” that seem laughable by US standards.

I live in SV so can afford a level of health care well above the usual middle class. Yet I have a literal A/B test: my kid broke his arm in Germany and also in the US and the ordinary treatment he got In Germany was significantly superior to that at Stanford Hospital — ant at a fraction of the cost.

You know, there's an interesting point here. Did you get travel health insurance for DE? Did you even think of getting it?

I always get that for holidays, it costs peanuts. Sometimes you don't even have to pay upfront if you use it, sometimes the treatment gets refunded.

> in most countries in Europe, people live in fear of having to be put on wait lists that extend from months to years

Absolutely false. Most people don't understand that the wait depends on priority. If you need urgent care you get urgent care.

Yes, if you need an appendectomy you will get that sorted very quickly. On other hand if you need knee replacement you might need to wait some months.

> Fun fact: Canada and the US have about the same homelessness rates on a per capita basis.

Could you provide a source for that?

It’s also fun seeing US thinkers explain what life is like in Europe but clearly never lived there and are actually wrong about a lot of it.

I've always found it interesting that Americans who could literally see Canadian flags across the St. Lawrence River or live in border states such as Minnesota or Michigan, have such bizarre views on the quality of Canadian health care and other social services.

I don’t find it fun. It’s about as fun as seeing “European thinkers” do the same about the US, as someone who has lived in both regions, although one direction is perhaps more vocal than the other. Whether it’s a positive or negative misconception, I find it more frustrating than amusing when one’s confidence is mismatched with the quality or reliability of information (i.e. ignorance).

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