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Comment by achompas | Hacker News Reader

How does 20 Under 20 change education in any way? How will Thiel change the problems behind higher ed by teaching twenty of the brightest teenagers how to become entrepreneurs? What will that prove for the other 99%?

You also completely skip one of the main arguments in favor of a college education. Does Khan Academy also provide an atmosphere where students can study, party, hook up, make mistakes, and otherwise learn how to become members of society? I don't think there's a YouTube channel with that feature.

Granted, kids shouldn't pay $40k a year to party, but you're declaring victory over lecture halls with a collection of online classes that started a week ago. We're a long way off from fixing education--a couple of YouTube videos and a single co-working space on the West Coast are one in many steps we need to take.

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Does Khan Academy also provide an atmosphere where students can study, party, hook up, make mistakes, and otherwise learn how to become members of society?

You know what provides that atmosphere? New York. Or SF. Or Boston, Seattle, Austin--pretty much any city. I did not miss out on those opportunities from dropping out. The difference was that I was in the real world that colleges theoretically prepare you for: no RAs, no meal plans, fewer second chances, etc. I don't know why a fake version of the real world is a better preparation for the real world that the real real world.

There was one other difference: not going to school is far, far cheaper. And you have enough free time to defray even that minimal cost by working.

> I don't know why a fake version of the real world is a better preparation for the real world that the real real world.

Right! I don't know why doctors have to practice on cadavers. Stick a scalpel in their hand and let them operate!

You first.

Yes, and this practice, in addition to their further clinicals is called an apprenticeship. To pass the medical boards - just stick a pencil in their hand ;-) if they prepared adequately - they'll pass...

My goodness. This type of thinking is going to shackle you from ever doing something new and untried.

That's the most important lesson you don't learn in college: how to do something completely novel. And it's the most important lesson one can ever learn.

Me first, indeed. That's what I did; it works.

That's also a completely different argument from the one I was addressing. It sounds like your version is that 18 to 22-year-olds are too dangerous to be unleashed on society (the person getting the "operation" in your analogy), so we need to send them to school to keep them out of trouble.

But I don't understand why school is a better alternative than the job market.

You know what provides that atmosphere? New York. Or SF. Or Boston, Seattle, Austin--pretty much any city.

Ignoring that many people don't live near large cities like these, how should a 17-year old support themselves? What would they do instead of going to school? Waiting tables isn't scalable--there aren't enough restaurants.

If people are willing to move for college they should be willing to move for "uncollege" (and people who aren't willing to move are in trouble; see Detroit). Likewise, borrowing ~$12K/year for living expenses should be less burdensome than borrowing ~$40K/year for college.

(Although I don't think those particular objections are valid, I'm still not in favor of the "uncollege" concept.)

There actually probably are enough restaurants to cover it in NYC and SF.

Apparently you've never seen the 100 desperate people who line up to drop off their resumes when a restaurant in San Francisco is actually hiring?

"fewer second chances"

I have to vigorously disagree with the assertion that the real world offers fewer second chances. In fact, it's the other way around, the real world (i.e. marketplace) offers as many chances as you can create.

It's the rigidity of academia that closes off chances for a lot of people who don't fit the predefined molds (categorization by major, standardized pedagogical technique (the lecture), and on and on). Additionally, academia is often a zero sum game (because of grading on a curve).

You might not like his politics, but former Vice President Cheney's auotbiography shows how many second chances the real world provides.

  How does 20 Under 20 change education in any way?

You start with just 20 Under 20, and then scale it out after initial success. Just like YC.

  also provide an atmosphere where students can study, 
  party, hook up, make mistakes, and otherwise learn how to 
  become members of society...

  kids shouldn't pay $40k a year to party

Well, we are in the middle of a Great Recession and the projections are that the double dip is coming [1].

We need to decouple the stated reason (it will get you a job) from the actual reason (it is fun). Because it is not so much fun when it doesn't get you a job and the party is over.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/your-money/a-recession-for...

>You start with just 20 Under 20, and then scale it out after initial success. Just like YC.

The problem with scaling is that is assumes most people start at the same base line, need the same resources, and progress at the same speed. We've had an industrial model of education in this country for decades and it's not really working for us. I've seen countless people try to "solve" the education problem by modeling business practices and generally speaking it never works out.

20U20 doesn't have distinct time periods like YC, just progress meetings/interviews. I'm fully with you on getting rid of the single model of "mainstream" schooling - the industrial part is so true...

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