Syntakt – 12 Track Drum Computer and Synthesizer | Hacker News Reader

Syntakt – 12 Track Drum Computer and Synthesizer

elektron.se

100 pointsweatherlight91 comments

Didn’t expect to see this on here! This looks like a really fun device. I already have most of the Elektron range, including the Analog Rytm and Model:Cycles, which this is kind of a “best of” combination of… but I must say I’m still tempted by having all that variety in one fairly portable device.

If you’ve not used Elektron stuff and have an interest in electronic music making without a computer, this is well worth a look. Their stuff is super fun, creative and powerful - it’s aimed a bit more at “live” performance (there’s no “arrange” or “song” mode, instead you are expected to mute and modulate things in real-time) which can actually be quite freeing compared to the blank slate of a DAW.

Edit: from a HN perspective, I guess it’s interesting to look at this from a business perspective. It’s quite a shrewd move, in that most of the synth “machines” already exist in the Analog Rytm and Model:Cycles, and the chassis and software already exist in the Digi line, so the “risky” part of the R&D for this was quite small. It’s a desirable item and I think will help them increase their addressable market due to the “all in one box” nature of it - really there is everything you need except sampling in one box here, all wrapped up in a fun UI!

They're always almost perfect boxes. Song mode would have been nice.

But I think this and a Digitakt would give you 90% of the Electron Trinity.

Personally I'd go for the Syntakt + Octatrack as Digitakt (and Digitone) seems too similar to Syntakt, while Octatrack being very unique. But then I'm biased because I love using Octatrack as a sampler/sampler-like machine.

Not a fan of the song itself, but ezbot just published a video with Syntakt + Octatrack, which shows the workflow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT6Tct6--8E

I really wanted to like the Digitakt, but I think being mono unless you double up on a sample and then pan killed it for me :(

> It’s a desirable item and I think will help them increase their addressable market due to the “all in one box” nature of it - really there is everything you need except sampling in one box here, all wrapped up in a fun UI!

This is such a crowded market competing for the electronic musician's attention though, between their own Digitakt, the OP-1, the tracker-style devices (Polyend, Dirtywave m8), the Deluge, MPC One, SP-404, TR-8S and the boatload of "all-in-one grooveboxes" iPad apps. Even Ableton Push, although tethered to a computer.

There's no way they'd recoup the R&D costs if us hobbyist suckers didn't buy several of these toys, and instead decided to learn one deeply, and focus on finishing tracks rather than cultivating our Gear Acquisition Syndrome ;)

> instead you are expected to mute and modulate things in real-time) which can actually be quite freeing compared to the blank slate of a DAW

Not owning any of the Elektron boxes aside from the model cycles (which doesnt seem quite the same to me in that regard), this is really interesting. Its basically how I currently use Renoise, but it always feels like a bit of a hack and very much so not how its "supposed to be used", so maybe something like this or a Digitone would be a perfect fit for me

My first job in software was at elektron. Glad to see they are still putting out stuff!

how was it working there and how did they get funded?

> how did they get funded?

Correct me if I'm wrong (also hard to know since it's a private company), they are self-funded. Started out with a school project and building the SidStation (with a Commodore 64 SID chip), and went from that.

Bit of links that go through the history

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektron_(company)

- https://sonicstate.com/news/2014/06/04/elektron-from-sid-to-...

i doubt you could have hired all the staff on the sale of some obscure c64 nostalgia in the beginning.

I worked with them almost 20 years ago. Back then they had two products, SIDstation and Machinedrum. Pretty much all of they guys came from the local technical University and we were sitting in an office right next to the campus entrance. I'm not sure where the funding came from, probably some seed funding from the school.

Cool! I see that they are hiring one software position at the moment [1], a Rust audio developer. Cool that they're using Rust, I wonder if that implies that they have ported earlier embedded code over, so at least their new products are based on Rust.

I didn't see a breakdown of what's inside this new product, that is always very interesting to me, the collapsing of all those cool UI features and (virtual) audio-generating "machines" down onto actual CPU/FPGA resources. Also makes me wonder if they can source whatever chips they need, now seems like a sad and annoying time to release new hardware products. :(

By the way, if it's not obvious, "Syntakt" is an amalgamation of "synth" as in synthesizer, and "takt" which is the Swedish word for "beat" (and/or "rythm", I guess) in the musical sense. So it makes sense for a combined synth and drum machine, I guess.

[1] https://www.elektron.se/rust-audio-developer/

> and "takt" which is the Swedish word for "beat" (and/or "rythm", I guess) in the musical sense.

Wow, TIL ! Thanks, I had always assumed it was made to sound like "tactile" or "Kontakt"

I've used the RYTM for the past five years and I feel like I know its synthesis engine inside and out. The one thing I always wish it had was a digital synth voice. I pretty much stick to the first row of RYTM pads: bass drum, snare, rimshot and clap. If I use the Dual VCO for melodic elements then I lose some drum sounds on that first row. Looks like the Syntakt will open up all of this flexibility that I've been desiring.

I have to give Elektron some credit on how consistent their design language in the Digi-/-takt family of products is. Since the first showcase of the Digitakt in 2017, that brings it to 5+ years of consistency - that has to be really rare to see. I read it like they found a solution for a cover and are now just optimizing on the internals.

For anyone looking for a more thorough breakdown of features and capabilities, Andrew Huang just did a great (sponsored) video on the device.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqGnKfhVhZ8

I'm not one to drum up drama, but I kinda got sick of Andrew after he faked his own kidnapping and then tried playing it off with the "it's just a prank bro" shtick. He represents a lot of aspects about influencer culture that I find grating.

Cuckoo, Loopop and Patchwerks also did some more in-depth videos today. Not here to take the wind out of anyone's sails, but there's probably more intellectually stimulating/gratifying content out there on this device.

i heard andrew wants like 10k to make a video

Sounds cheap. This one has 40k views less than 12 hours after being posted.

i don’t see the economics working, but ok

It’s a $1000 product. By sponsoring such a channel, you’re actually marketing to the exact people that you’d want to advertise to, all 2 million of them. You don’t need to sell many for it to make sense.

viewing that video one time is not going to make you buy the product.

so in reality you have to be seeing multiple videos like that about 10 times. which means you need multiple creators like that and spend $$$$ on ads.

Which is exactly what they're doing. The set of people they have making videos for this is like the Who's Who of synth youtube, and arguably the most important avenue for advertising this kind of product nowadays.

Indeed. Specialist YouTube channels are a goldmine, that’s why they work.

It’s the new version of specialist magazines as far as advertising goes.

If 0.025% (a tenth of a quarter of a percent) of the people who watched the video _so far_ buy a unit, they're already break even. And that's only considering the 44k people who watched the video in the first 12 hours.

A significant percentage of the audience for Andrew Huang, Loopop and similar channels regularly buy synths and studio gear, and are largely guided to those purchases by these YouTube reviews. That gear typically isn't inexpensive; the Syntakt is £850, yet a lot of people will be buying this device in the next few days after watching Andrew Huang et al review it. I would be amazed if synth influencers were unable to make a very decent living from reviewing gear, given the relative affluence of their subscribers.

I’m a synth dilettante and I absolutely look at these channels for inspiration and validation on what to buy, and sometimes for tips on how to use it.

Andrew Huang and True Cuckoo for the enthusiasm, sometimes also Ricky Tinez; Loopop and Sonicstate for thorough reviews; and Bad Gear to keep me grounded.

So yeah, if you want my next thousand bucks your chances are pretty good if all these guys like your gear. Or appear to like it.

Personally, I try to stay away from "lifestyle synthesists" like Andrew Huang, Bo Beats and (to a certain extent) Ricky Tinez. I don't like the feeling that I'm being marketed to by an influencer who is in it for the money rather than for the music itself. Loopop is great for reviews of new gear because he's clinical with his descriptions, but otherwise I try to focus more on channels like Alex Ball, Bad Gear and Matt Johnson, where the music-making process is at the forefront.

I feel like Andrew Huang is in another league of YouTuberdom with the high production values, it’s almost as if “YouTube” is his genre and he happens to be into synthesizers. Whereas Bad Gear is like what I would make if I knew anything and wasn’t lazy.

Funny, I count 12 Syntakt videos just among my subscriptions and I’m not even a musician. Elektron must have sent out a lot of these.

yep, not just sent out, but paid $$$$ in marketing

Seems like a good investment, probably way more effective than buying Google or Facebook ads.

However I do wonder sometimes -- how much love do the little indie shops get from these YouTubers?

If you're a tiny shop and can't afford payola, can you still get on these channels? If not, that's a super opportunity for someone to make a new channel. Call it "Synth I Get" or something and review every single thing anyone sends you.

These people certainly don't always get paid for reviews. Loopop is very transparent about whether he was given something for free or bought it himself (though I don't know if he does the latter as much anymore, his reviews are basically tutorials that are as interesting after you get the thing as when deciding what to get). Loopop has reviewed both Monome and Organelle products, which are open source and about as indie as it gets.

Elektron is a major player and this is a very "big" product launch as far as synths go. (Though I think that says more about the market than it does about Elektron.)

loopop is a guy who has a tech company. i never understood why if you already are succesful with some web 2.0 company you also have to be an influencer.

I'd believe it if he said it was just passion for the instruments. The guy really puts a lot of work into each of his videos, it kinda blows my mind.

at that level and frequency it’s a business

I would really not call the loopop guy (whoever he is) an "influencer."

I'd call him an educator, taking advantage of the medium to give super useful, very thorough reviews of products that are both expensive and notoriously hard to figure out.

Plus I guess he loves synths enough to do all these deep-dives? I mean, if it were a job it would be a pretty grueling one, that stuff is complicated to learn and there are so many and the expectation is that his videos will cover pretty much everything. I assume he makes some money on it but I'm actually relieved to hear it's not his main gig.

"YouTube is underrated."

$10,000 is on the very low-end for a brand deal with a creator who has 2.2 million subscribers.

i guess i am in the wrong business

> kinda got sick of Andrew after he faked his own kidnapping

How long ago was this? His content for the last several years seems more mature than that, but I'm not familiar with his early work.

I googled around for anything about this and couldn’t find anything - I can’t say this for retain, but maybe OP is confused or mistaken.

I personally find him super entertaining, not to mention immensely talented. His breakdowns of gear are excellent.

I too did a search. So far we have only "I don't want drama"-smoldesu's assertion that this happened.

I had to go digging for it as well, he deleted pretty much everything related to it. At least we know he's getting what he paid for with his PR team.

I did find an embed of the tweet from before it was deleted[0], though. I'm sure you could find relevant comments calling him out on his videos around the time he pulled this (July 2021).

[0]https://i.postimg.cc/Prr9s7wb/Screenshot-20220422-092011.png

Or that time he faked going to space and met chrystal aliens. Typical fucking lying influencers.

That space stuff really put me off. I subscribed to his channel for the music (gear) videos and suddenly the channel turned into cheap sci fi and I had no idea what was going on... I unsubscribed afterwards and refrain from clicking his videos when youtube recommends them.

Lol serious? Must have missed that one

For thorough review, look for loopop as usual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DqqKYAGsGo

Loopop is the most thorough when it comes to reviews (I find at least), much better than Huang. Otherwise I look at ezbot as his musical style fits me a bit better.

Here is his starter video for the Syntakt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nenpiWEYjRg

Ricky Tinez and sonicstate tends to have good videos as well, but couldn't find any videos by them about the Syntakt yet.

Wish that they would have included some basic sampling functions here. I know there is Digitakt for that, but the did include some digitone-lite functionality.

Elektron seems to get close to perfect drum machines but never quite hits the mark for me. I know, who am I and there is plenty of choice and all that.

In the meantime I am patiently waiting for my Rossum SP-1200 reissue.

Somebody cruel posted this on a forum last night and luckily they were already sold out and I will try and forget I have even seen this.

So many amazing new toys to play with and increase the guilt of not practicing my piano and guitar skills.

The biggest thing holding me back from elektron boxes is the lack of battery power. I do have a Model:Cycles and I love it, but due to the fact that I have to go fishing for its power adapter (the barrel size really needs to be standardised, it has to a point but there are still 3-4 options) and find somewhere suitable to use it close to a socket, it just kills the "pick up and play" ability for me, and a groovebox hugely benefits from that.

This one though might push me over the edge

Edit: Also, the timings quite interesting as it seems TE released their new mixer, the TX-6(?) at nearly the same time

You could just use a powerbank, there are models available that can provide the necessary voltage.

That could work, though I seem to remember last time I checked they were quite hard to find in the UK and in some cases bigger than the elektron itself (almost the size of a small generator), but worth another look I suppose

I have a digitakt and with the right cable and a standard powerbank its easily enough for some train rides or sitting outside

I agree battery power would be great. For the model:cycles you can use a standard USB power bank with the right-sized USB-to-barrel plug adapter. I've tried and it works well even with small "lipstick" power banks.

For the digitakt/digitone, people have used 12V power banks in a similar way. There's also people that have modded them to put a battery inside - turns out there's plenty of empty space inside. https://www.elektronauts.com/t/digitakt-modified-with-intern...

These days, I almost exclusively use my M8, though. It's an incredible little machine.

I love the sound, capabilities and build quality of the Elektron gear (especially Digitakt / Analog Rytm2), but I dislike the amount of menu-diving that's required. I find the interface a bit of a barrier. My Roland TR-8S has dedicated knobs to most of it's features, there's less 'magic' happening. I do really miss conditional triggers and a nice built-in effects chain like in the Elektron hardware.

The menu diving becomes second nature after a while. You won't become Dataline overnight but it's not as daunting after the manual and YouTube tutorials

I know, but I've come to the realisation that menu-diving devices just aren't suited to me. There's too many steps and combinations of keys to remember - is the feeling I get every time. Especially when you've got lots of gear in the studio already. I'll stick to a more straightforward drum machine and modular synthesizers. I wish Elektron would've added more knobs (encoders) and faders. I was looking into combining a Faderfox (or Oktakontrol) with an Octatrack, that seems a bit more intuitive.

I wonder why after all these years after PCs became cheap and powerful trackers didn't wipe out all hardware drum machnies (if not everything else)? (note: I include DAWs and other MIDI sw there as well) Maybe because of tactile feeling? :) To have things to touch, press, turn, squeeze, tear off, crack... :D

As with any creative device, it's not about power or checking boxes on feature list, it's about how you gel with the thing and gets your juices flowing, or not.

This is a super-frequently discussed topic among electronic musicians. No question software has become dominant, but I think the main argument for why hardware hasn't been "wiped out" is more or less what you said - interacting with a dedicated piece of hardware with knobs, faders, keys is a very different experience than typing and clicking or tapping on a touch screen. You can use MIDI controllers for PCs/tablets, but it's still not quite the same, as you have to configure your controller for each plugin, etc. There's some advanced controller interfaces like the Maschine that have a deeper integration between the software and hardware. But then you're still tethered to a computer, which some people dislike.

In the 90s I had to reboot mid-set as the ASIO driver for my Sound Blaster Live! died.

Never relied on a computer as a core of my setup since. Still on MPC1000.

Yes, I’d say that interface makes enough of a difference such that musicians enjoy the challenges they present. And from my experience, this influences the outcome of the work, which presents interesting possibilities.

For example, consider the following scenarios:

1. Musician is sitting at a desk, drawing midi notes on a screen, much the way he might enter data on a spreadsheet.

2. Musician is standing over two independent hardware synth/sequencers, twiddling knobs, usually in sync with the tempo. That standing position might even incline him to dance. The body is now playing a significant role.

Paint by numbers vs a blank paper. I can't use a DAW, I end up with the musical equvilent of dickbutt every time.

Came back specially to say I agree with both of you and many others - there's a huge difference between playing music and programming music. I prefer another way, when possible: record sheet live (midi, or it, xm, etc) and then edit things a bit. Mainly because I'm an idealist and a programmer. It's very important to me to have music in "vector (vs. raster)" - notes instead of stream format. So, requirement to have hardware instrument is always bugging me.

It did, there is just a resurgence of entrepreneurial hipsters trying to bring back hardware stuff like they're trying to bring back vinyl.

I really have a few questions: how good do the analog channels sound? How good is the filter? Is it better than a Prophet 5?

Machines have a mind of their own. The workflow and engine constraints guides the creative process. Machine control is physical and immediate. Machines are focused on the single task of making sounds. Machines are ready to play the moment you turn them on. Machines can be collected, borrowed and traded. Machines are independent of OS upgrades and API changes. Machines can be left in boxes for decades and will play the same when you pick them up again, except for the odd hardware issue. Machines can often be modded and repaired by their owners.

Software's versatility and abundance can lead to "analysis paralysis". Software is always a task-switch away from a YouTube session or an email from your mom or your work. If you're a perfectionist, software invites yak shaving. Software's innate precision leave less room for creative errors. Software depends on a hardware/software stack that will invariably become obsolete or break compatibility at some point. Software has little long-term intrinsic value if it's not bound to an actual hardware installation.

In all objectivity you can do much more with one single laptop than a number of synth/sequencers/controllers/groovebox.

But:

- we are tactile people

- we like knobs and things that plugs into themselves (a sexual thing?)

The 2 aformentionned items are partially solved by the the use of midi controllers but:

- software instruments launched by a DAW lack relief

- we like owning things

- limitations inspire creativity

- when using a computer you are all too often exposed to procrastination through the proximity of the web browser, communication tools / social medias notifications, etc.

- some of us spend enough time in front of a computer during the day that once we are off we prefer not open it again

- there are people who collect things

- machines can be sold back, software licenses activated online usually cannot.

- I would totally bring my Model:Samples or any other pocket groovebox/synthsequencer to shape some draft of music with headphones, I wouldn't bring a laptop there.

Wack and over-priced, like most of the electronic music gear HN fawns over. You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think this is somehow more capable than a computer and a controller. Elektron loves "prosumers" tho so keep shoveling money at them

> electronic music gear HN fawns over

As someone who hangs around the scene a bit, HN is in no way special in fawning over Elektron gear, most people I know who professionally make electronic music adores most of the stuff Elektron puts out.

> more capable than a computer and a controller

No one has said this, and that's also not why anyone starts using gear like this. If you're just looking for "what's more capable" then yeah, you end up with a computer. But if you're looking for something where you can jam out songs without pausing or fiddling, then gear like this is optimal.

For me, one of the main selling points of Elektron gear is that I don't have to use my computer, which I use enough for programming and other "business" things.

Show me a single controller that provides the cool UI that Syntakt has.

Uh anything that Native Instruments makes, for starters.

Are you talking about devices like the Maschine+ for example? Those are just DAWs in a more portable format. Works just like their Maschine software, but on a smaller screen and more hardware controls.

Elektron makes hardware that is very different than a DAW-but-portable.

I know what Elektron makes

Ok, good for you?

You're not really making a good effort in making your views understood here, so lets just leave it at that.

I like Elektron devices and I own a Digitakt and Model:Cycles but I find this one a bit underwhelming, especially it’s lack of proper polyphony.

I also like them, and own a couple (but not the Digitakt, Digitone or the Model:Cycles), this box will fit nicely in the rest of my setup as a combined Digitakt/Digitone. Will pick up my Syntakt on Monday and can't wait to pair it with the Octatrack and Heat!

AFAIK, you can achieve polyphony the same way you can achieve it on the rest of Elektron machines, by manually doing it with multiple machines. I agree it'd be nice to have it out-of-the-box, but personally it's good enough for me.

I can't play any instruments, but I would love to go somewhere where you can just play with these kinds of things (and bring your kids).

At least in Europe, quite a few shops that sell drums, pianos and guitars also have some grooveboxes, drum machines and synths you can try out. Bigger ones could have Elektron ones as well with some luck.

There is a learning curve to these kinds of machines, so it might be hard to play with it without some practice. I’d recommend to just buy one, and experiment with it. They can provide years of creative fun!

Looks great fun! Wish it had batteries and small speakers, nice while on travel (like the OP-1).

A bunch of people are making Elektron devices portable with Ripcord (myvolts.com/Ripcord - https://www.elektronauts.com/t/usb-powering-digitone-for-por...). I've never tried it myself, as the Elektron machines I have are not too portable by hardware dimension already (Rytm and Octatrack) but I'll be getting a battery + Ripcord for my Syntakt for sure.

Teehee when my elektron analog four mkii arrived i spent a few weeks trying to portable-ize it... but it consumes way too much power...i wonder if others manage.

Still waiting for an Octatrack mkIII with 8 analog in/out, polyphony and overbridge

Similarly Im waiting for an Elektron mixer with automation and effects. give me 12 in - 12 out with 4 digital effects engines and 4 analog effects engines.

Roland have created a similar device so we know the market exists. https://www.roland.com/global/products/mx-1/

Korg too with the volca mixer.

An electron take on a dedicated mixer would be very cool.

Heh, they made yet another new box, but my digitakt still can't transpose tracks.

this also has scales i think which we dont have either.. waiting for an update soon

Some of the missing features from box to box are annoying for sure, e.g. also no arp on here or Digitakt, but to be fair Elektron do support their devices with significant feature updates for quite a long time so I don’t feel hard done to. But there’s definitely an element of feature segmentation to make you want to buy them all (and it works, lol)

I can totally agree with them not implementing complex things the community is dreaming of for the Digitakt. Be it a business decision or a hardware/architecture limitation. But I cannot imagine what kind of software design would prevent moving all notes on a midi track up or down n semitones.

Also for any reasonable sequencer architecture implementing such a feature should not be difficult (might even call it trivial(tm)), leaving only the option that this is intentional.

Would be very interested to know the reasons behind this.

I value simplicity and as a Korg fan I will rather wait for Drumlogue, if that thing ever gets released.

Yeah, "simplicity" as in "small amount of control" is probably something Elektron won't ever go for, as all of their machines are packed with features and "weird" controls. As someone who is deep in the Elektron ecosystem, I personally love it and hope they don't change.

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