Google Play bans call-recording apps | Hacker News Reader

Google Play bans call-recording apps

arstechnica.com

127 pointspseudolus47 comments

Call recording apps have always barely worked, or worked on some phones. While the new policy is the nail in the coffin (for Play Store distribution) Android has always been incredibly hostile towards them.

Of course most custom ROMs have a "record" button in the default dialer app.

I used to run stock Android from Google but it has gotten clear that they don't want me to use my phone. I can't access the data of my apps and this pushed me to switch to LineageOS months ago. Now they take this away and my position is validated.

I've used this for over a year with no issues: https://f-droid.org/packages/com.github.axet.callrecorder/

Me too! I installed it through the Magisk module, and it works flawlessly.

How difficult would you rank the experience of getting rid of stock Android for a non-programmer? I'm technically skilled enough to work in the industry, but hate reading and occasionally make stupid mistakes. Is it an involved many hours long process, or pretty straightforward? Any downsides? Problems sending sending/recieving calls or texts? I'd still need to maintain access to some apps, like Bitwarden and a few authenticators. I don't mind jumping through one or two hoops upfront, but if it's a constant problem it'd get old fast.

I really want to be able to record calls if I feel the need to do so. This change is completely unacceptable to me. I've already moved away from Windows/OSX to Fedora for similar arbitrary, user-hostile actions. It sounds like its about time to do the same with my phone, regrettably.

Technology has become a tedious thing. It's supposed to help the public in the ways that they want, not to be decided for them, where the only correct means is approved or denied by some faceless mush of "approvers". I feel a lot of the spirit of the early technologists has been lost with these authoritarian corporatists. It's incredibly frustrating to see such a good thing ground into the mud by these thugs in hoodies.

In general it isn't that hard LineageOS has fairly clear guides.

The main hitch is Google's Safety Net. Some apps want to validate that you are using a "trustworthy" OS. Of course by "trustworthy" they mean "obeys Google, not the user" Depending on the phone you can spoof it but it is more complex and a cat-and-mouse game. Currently it is working for me even with Google Pay but it is surely only a matter of time until they require hardware attestation which will be basically impossible to fake. Of course while Google is the enabler here, the real problem is the apps. They shouldn't care what OS I used and shouldn't check. I just avoid the apps other than Google Pay which check (not that I've seen any yet other than an old bank).

If you have a pixel, installing grapheneos isnt too bad. I did it via the cli because I'm a luddite, but the webpage based installer is apparently fine. (Assuming you can also figure out how to install chrome.)

Executive summary: I simply will use a second smartphone to record things going on on my primary smartphone if needed (and legal, of course). So Google, what does this restriction deliver besides frustration?

I moved from IOS to Android some years ago because of Apple's restrictive policies. And I enjoy apps like Termux which allow me to actually use a Smartphone as a computer, e.g. rsyncing ma data to and from a device, or using tools like ImageMagick or Exiftool. And one of my smartphones (a Xiaomi device, controlled by Netguard to limit data leakage ;-) even allows me to easily produce neat movies of things happening on the screen.

And I dislike these arbitrary limiations of a Smartphones usability. I do understand and accept, actually like, that apps have to ask for various permissions. But I cannot understand why companies think people are too stupid to somehow circumvent suchbrestrictions? Same for apps which disallow screenshots. Ask me for permission, even every time a screenshot is requested, because I can use another device to get the screenshot anyway, like it or not Google.

Sorry average person, but only tech oligopolies may record your calls. /s

I once had rocket mortgage lie to me and as a result screw up my credit rating. They said they do it to other people all the time because they don't adequately train their agents, but they weren't going to remove the error from my credit report, despite the fact that they're required to by law.

I could have probably hired a lawyer, but the damages were reasonably well bounded.

Anyway, they are incompetent crooks that record calls, then won't use the resulting proof they screwed up to correct mistakes, even when it would cost them nothing.

I wish my phone autorecorded every call where the other side said it might be recording the call.

This is such an idiotic decision, there are a million legitimate reasons to want to record your own calls that have nothing to do with disability. Is there working call recording functionality on iPhone? Tired of every fucking Android update just being worse.

It's just like on MacOS. Why do I need to give my apps "accessiblity" to be able to share my screen? That doesn't even make sense to a tech person, let alone the average person. I think the permissions are pointless anyways. Average person just clicks "allow" on everything without reading it anyways. And it just annoys the fuck out of me. App developers keep working around the limitations... Are these granular permissions really helping anybody? I thought all the apps in the stores were vetted and safe to use!

Safe just means safe for apples wallet.

> "Google has said in the past it would prefer if the accessibility APIs were only used by apps meant for people with disabilities"

Google and Apple make all users of their phone platforms "disabled" thru draconian policy restrictions. Does that mean all users qualify because we've had our abilities limited?

Even headphone left/right balance setting is in the accessibility section. Does that mean I'm abusing the feature since I'm not hard of hearing or anything like that, just my left speaker is a bit quieter.

So recently Truecaller added the ability to record calls on the device. Each time you call someone a little bubble appears asking if you want to record the call. I wonder if such a popular app will be taken down

I hope that Spyware is removed once and for all

Under the guise of privacy, Android has been increasingly more and more user hostile with every new version.

They removed access to external storage, only to relent to the backlash and have it back later under a special permission because, surprise, there are perfectly valid use cases for needing access to external storage like a file manager, or a backup manager.

They removed access to clipboard for background process, despite the fact there are perfectly valid use cases for that like clipboard manager, or dictionary app.

They kept restricting voice recording for years, and now pretty much just kill it.

All of these should just have been locked behind permissions. Require adb access to grant the permission if you want, deny access to the App store if using the permission if you want, I don't care, as long as there is an option to do it for power user.

I hate how my device keeps getting more and more closed like Apple. I hate having a powerful personal computing device being crippled by nonsensical software decisions from the big G overlord.

> my device

It's Google's device. You just pay for it.

Have you flashed a ROM yet?

> deny access to the App store if using the permission if you want, I don't care, as long as there is an option to do it for power user.

That's what the article is about. It's a policy change.

In this particular case yes, but we're not always that lucky, and I'm not surprised if they will completely remove the API in the near future.

I'm running GrapheneOS and IMO its a good experience

The problem with custom ROMs and root is SafetyNet. Chances are bank apps (or anything that uses SafetyNet e.g. Pokemon GO) won't work.

I feel like this is where some kind of antitrust action is needed.

On the one hand, it's completely understandable that e.g. a bank wants to rely on a mechanism like SafetyNet to prevent fraud, but on the other hand it's taking away a lot of freedoms where alternatives could be implemented (e.g. let the user sign a waiver for specific risks which are usually covered by SafetyNet).

There needs to be an alternative way to provide the same guarantees and functionalities to developers and end users, but without the required reliance upon a monopolistic entity.

Just a quick side note FYI - I've been crowd sourcing banking app reports from users in order to build a (work in progress) list of international banking apps that work on GrapheneOS. To view the current list and/or submit a banking app report, feel free to check out https://akc3n.org/projects/banking/

Nice, is there a table that lists everything at once? I want to see at a glance what the overall support is.

No, not yet, that's a good idea though, thanks for that.

There is https://akc3n.org/projects/banking/#list-of-banking-apps And https://github.com/akc3n/banking/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Acl...

> international banking apps

Thanks for mentioning this. Without this explicit mention I would have (on HN) assumed it to be a US-focused list and likely have skipped it.

To Indian users of Graphene OS: do Indian banks use SafetyNet too? Any experiences?

I'm not sure if things have changed significantly but I used to run Magisk to get SafetyNet on my devices.

I remember the announcement to remove MagiskHide, not sure what people are using these days. Still, even back then with MagiskHide it was a constant arms race between Magisk and SafetyNet and I got tired of constantly having to update.

All of my banking apps work fine on GrapheneOS.

Ditto. Used IPhone 4-12 pro max switched to pixel for graphene. Don't miss apple love having granular control and the feeling like I know what my apps are all up to and not having my phone constantly calling home to mother ship.

Is GrapheneOS the current major open-source-Android that would be recommended for normal users?

I used to use CyanogenMod a long time ago, then heard the recommended option became LineageOS (after I'd already changed from the old phone to a new one with stock Android), I don't know what the current "most likely to work, (reasonably) reliable" option is.

>They removed access to clipboard for background process, despite the fact there are perfectly valid use cases for that like clipboard manager

Or my beloved KDEConnect!

Why does the Phone app only allow recording in India?

I remember back in the day, my mom had a little suction cup microphone thing for recording calls that stuck directly to the phone. I have to think the analog loophole would still work in this case.

Any suggestions for call-recording apps outside the Google Play garden?

I use a rooted phone and a call recorder in magisk. It's been the only way I've found to record reliably since the last recorder I used stopped working.

I haven't tried it, but it looks like Zoom will record calls on desktop for free, or do "cloud recording" if you pay.

https://f-droid.org/packages/com.github.axet.callrecorder/

The default phone app on LineageOS has a native call-record button.

Another argument to escape Google and Apple and consider GNU/Linux phones (Librem 5 and Pinephone), where nobody will dictate what software you run.

Android allows for alternative stores, like F-Droid. I would love to see those phones take off, but at the very least they'd need great Android runtime support.

I'd love to, but I can't find an open source phone that does WiFi calling. And with no cell service at my house, it's a necessity. I can't find femtocells anymore, especially ones that work with my MVNO. I even bought a PinePhone, but it's just sitting in a drawer because I can't use anything but Android or iOS hardware.

Wouldn't a femtocell for your "actual carrier" work with your MVNO?

Like for me, I'm on Red Pocket Mobile using Verizon service. Would a Verizon femtocell block Red Pocket subscribers?

Verizon signal boosters work fine with my phone. As far as I can tell, anywhere/anyhow a Verizon phone has service, my phone will have service too.

Hmm... I might have to look into this more. But back in the day when I had an AT&T femtocell, it was still tied into my account, and I had to 'allow' phones to connect to it. And it looks kinda like the T-mobile CellSpot also has to tie to your account so that you can set up e911 addresses. But it does say that anybody within range can jump on it, so MVNO might work on it. Maybe the way around this is a cheap pre-paid t-mo hotspot plan or something just to get it set up. Thanks for the suggestion.

https://www.t-mobile.com/support/coverage/4g-lte-cellspot-se...

I wonder if mobile carriers could offer recording as an additional service.

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