Largest subreddit for Amazon workers has banned any mention of unions | Hacker News Reader

Largest subreddit for Amazon workers has banned any mention of unions

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Setting aside much of the necessary context, is this somewhat inherently an anti-union action? (Even if the moderators are not anti-union themselves?) That said, I curiously dove in to find a lot of relevant flavor:

- The sidebar of r/AmazonFC seems to have rather reasonable rules, yet "no pro/anti union discussion" bullet. I consider this to be a poor decision on their part.

- Currently, the mods are now locking and reviewing all posts without sufficiently describing why: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmazonFC/comments/u7ipfn/current_st...

- With a cursory search, I found multiple threads within the past few months with (seemingly) unhindered union discussion. In these threads (which seem to be balanced in terms of pro/against sentiment) some employees express rather unsettling yet somewhat related sentiments, such as not being able to talk with other employees in their roles, even socially. (I am not extremely extroverted but even I can't imagine working in an environment like this.)

- Most abstractly, permitting open discussions about unionization puts the Mods of r/AmazonFC in an extremely awkward place—I imagine that these mods are known to Amazon management (either intentionally or unintentionally disclosed) and probably currently work for the company. I seriously doubt they are paid enough where they can be careless about moderation actions in case it incurs the ire of Amazon, even if Moderating while off the clock in their free time on personal devices. (Unions or not, this is categorically broken in the US employment system, at a level larger than Amazon.)

IMO, either:

- Reddit community management should step in and offer assistance, particularly because the mods are claiming spam and brigading. (I don't know their intervention guidelines.)

- The sub should link to (yet disavow, if the mods desire) a new sub for AmazonFC unionization discussions, as an open platform for fair discussion for or against unionization at Amazon Fullfilment Centers.

You'd be surprised how many subreddits are owned by corporates or PR firms retained on their behalf. AmazonFC is quite likely a corporate subreddit.

It's also shocking Amazon employees don't yet have their own forum setup for this, with a web-of-trust system, so that moles can be rooted out easily. Plenty of stuff like that out of the box for nominal fee.

How long will it take for everyone to fully understand that if you don't ownn something (free service) - they own you, and your content, and often even your thoughts, not the other way around?

Might get much worse before it gets better.

What’s a web of trust system?

e.g.: I am an amazon worker. I want to unionize. a trusted friend I knew before Amazon vouches for me to join the forum where we talk. Now, I can invite you, because I can vouch for you as a member.

If you turn out to be a strike-breaker spy, I might get booted with you, or maybe my reputation will be reset to zero, or I get to be watched more closely, etc.

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signing_party 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust

I just recently discovered that. Tried holding convos about some of the “handyman” type apps in the specific subreddits and everything pretty much by approval only.

I suspect the mods didn't want to deal with the vitriol that results from such discussions. The people who want an Amazon union discussion subreddit should start one. They probably just didn't want their sub to be taken over by union/anti-union propagandists.

This would be my default assumption to be honest. Any controversial discussion on Reddit tends to take over your mod queue with arguments and reports and then claims of mods overreaching, personal attacks etc etc.

Add to that the number of self important users who feel the need to make their own post rather then join a discussion and subs can be taken over by a topic super fast and become way more work then you signed up for.

People are way too quick to assume conspiracies when unpaid-mods-don't-want-to-deal-with-the-hassel-or-potential-real-life-consequences is a very likely much more obvious scenario.

I uninstalled the Reddit app recently after they have banned some subs I used to browse. It seems just a freaking arrogant attitude to me that you want to control what I browse.

How power-tripped could you become by being able to control an Internet forum?

They ban you if they don’t like what you say to curate the discussions anyways

Which ones?

I’m sure Amazon worked their way into the community and shut it down. If they can prove this it’s illegal right?

Why is it "illegal"?

Union-busting is in fact illegal because we have laws that protect the right to unionize (in America at least)

So reddit is not a bastion of free speech either?

It was always moderated speech. The founder recently even mentioned this on Elon Musk's post that 'free speech' on a public platform is unattainable. Even 4chan has moderation and bans.

Moderation to remove illegal content and non-relevant content is not what Reddit is doing. It’s not the same thing at all

Keep in mind that Reddit removing subreddits and subreddit moderators banning certain topics are completely different things.

Mods on reddit have dictatorial status on their subs (within reason). However anyone is free to start a new sub to be more open than the one they are banned/shadow-banned in. If the topic is important enough people will move there.

Then once the hive mind discovers said subreddit it gets deleted by mods especially if it is right leaning.

Reddit's editing policy sucks. It encourages partisans, fanboys/girls, and zealots to manage a subreddit.

Their sub, their rules.

Hell, one sub banned me because I had the audacity to comment in a different sub they don't like.

well its not really for smazon workers then.

I feel like this is not the whole story.

Yeah it's only a very small part of Amazon's anti-union war.

The subreddit is for fulfillment centers. It's pretty specific. Union recruitment and discussion (laugh) isn't really specific to that.

I don't consider this Amazon acting against unions, when it's more likely typical subreddit curation. There are other Amazon subreddits.

I disagree. I used to participate in both public and private subs topically related to my former workplace. Topical subs are usually a comfortable place for you to chat with people with experience familiar to yours.

See, for example, r/starbucks and r/chipotle — many discussions here are employees talking about their work experience with customers occasionally poking in and chatting, there isn't a mob of people living and breathing Starbucks and Chipotle. In contrast, r/AmazonFC makes it even more topical and therefore more likely to attract an employee heavy userbase more than the average sub.

> See, for example, r/starbucks and r/chipotle

Different subreddits have different standards. Reddit has many subreddits that are very similar and have wildly different rulesets and prohibitions. Reddit isn't some greater commons of expression. This is the source of much of the drama and why subreddits often fragment into slightly more niche shards, all the time. It's just the way reddit has been for as long as I've known about it. The idea that Amazon has some overriding control of that particular subreddit seems unlikely with the kinds of whistleblowing that goes on frequently there. shrug

> Union recruitment and discussion (laugh)

Could you elaborate on the "laugh" here?

Subreddit removes heated discussion about topics irrelevant to the subreddit. How is this news?

How is it irrelevant to the subreddit?

The subreddit in question is about fulfillment centers.

For the sake of discussion, what content would you expect to be relevant to a sub about Amazon Fulfillment Centers?

Would you consider employees discussing their work experience with pseudo-anonymity about their workplace relevant?

You don’t understand. There is so much consumer curiosity about how fulfillment centers work that employees discussing work experiences is a big distraction.

And the union discussions are there because of the conditions in the aforementioned fulfillment centers.

What should the discussion be about, if not working conditions in a company that caused 6 deaths when they didn't let people leave and be safe?

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