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Comment by fragmede | Hacker News Reader

Why do I want a pile of .ogg (or .mp3) files? ? Back in the day, having a huge library of files on a disk, a carefully curated collection from which to burn a mix CD to present as a gift to a romantic (or platonic) interest was worth the world. Times have changed though, and that carefully curated mix CD full of mystery - what will the next track bring? - these days it's still just as carefully curated, but it's a link to a Spotify playlist. Music hasn't (quite) fragmented the same way video has, with Netflix, Hulu, Disney, Paramount, CBS, HBO, YouTube and so on all having paid options, but having a spotify account with apps on all devices is just so much easier.

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I am gonna tell you why. I got a Porsche Taycan last year with Burmester. Its audio quality is excellent, however there are limitations. I can play Spotify from my phone over bluetooth, which means reencoded lossy audio. It sounds awful. I can however play music directly from a usb memory stick, which sounds great, just as it should.

This is more a problem of Porsche, not having Spotify integrated into their PCM. It is coming on future models though. But we with a Taycan 2020-2022 model, will not get this.

So having a pile of ogg files is currently a great option.

Just reading this, I would love to have your problems...

lol

Do not really care about the Porsche but having the ear to tell lossy compression over bluetooth sounds superhuman to me.

Not super human. Just placebo. Unless it’s using a weird Bluetooth mode like HSP but that’s unlikely because it would be horribly compressed.

It’s hard to tell if it’s just HN imaginary “horrible sounding” or if the mic is on for some reason which makes it actually sound that bad.

I don't know anything about the car's sound system, but aptX is a pretty common Bluetooth audio codec for music and these days it can run up to 420kbit/s with the adaptive codec, or 576kbit/s with HD, 24 bit at 44.1-96kHZ, so it's not unreasonable to think you could hear the difference between high and low quality audio sources with that (since even high quality compressed audio tends to be less than 420kbit/s)

What has been heard cannot be unheard. Back in the day I did some ABX comparisons of various mp3 encoders. I unwillingly trained my hearing to spot encoder artifacts forever. I tested encoders more than 15 years ago. I still hear mp3 compression without trying. Bluetooth SBC codec is even worse. Wish I could turn this off but I can't.

It does not have CarPlay?

Negative 8th world problems

Because music has a tendency of suddenly disappearing on Spotify. Either labels decide Spotify isn't giving them enough in return, or artists are angry at Spotify for their stinginess or because they have a podcast which they disapprove of. Look at your playlists that are over a year old. If you are like me you'll see that 10% or 20% of the tracks are unavailable now. This is the downside to streaming -- nothing is permanent.

I was thrilled when I read Spotify was coming to my country. Then the main genres I listen to (Reggae and Dancehall) have many tracks unavailable as the labels (VP Records is the worst) whitelist countries. I reverted back to local files.

- Doesn't require an internet connection.

- Online services are unreliable: They can go offline at any minute, go out of business, ban your for any reason (including from automated ban systems tagging you for "suspicious activity" if you login from different counties, use vpns, etc).

- Costs money forever (or need to listen to ads).

- Their catalog of music can change: Songs can be deleted at any time.

- Better performance: searching local storage is faster, skipping around is faster, better battery life by not needing to power up the 4G radio/wifi.

I was a Google play music user for the entire life of the service. Lots of playlists, play history, ratings, etc. All of that is gone now. I tried multiple different apps to convert my playlists and library to Apple Music and even the official conversion to YouTube music but they all messed up my library and filled up with songs with similar names that are completely different genres and artists. Some music didn’t carry over at all and I have a vague sense that my playlists are not complete but no idea what’s missing. And while I liked the user interface of Google play music, I hate the interface of YouTube music and I’m not a fan of the interface of Apple Music. I lost control over how I play my music. I regret jumping on the streaming music bandwagon a decade ago.

"Why do I want a pile of .ogg (or .mp3) files? "

- In times with no internet, or traveling to places with bad connection. (offline features are very limited)

- have your music forever and not just as long the company offers it (see Neil Young)

- play your music with a better player (I think spotify works awful). Fine control fade in, fade out etc.

- privacy, I do not like the world to know at what times I listen to what music and how long

..also, songs/albums being removed from spotify. Go to settings -> show removed (unavailable?) tracks to see what you are missing. Sometimes you can search for the song and find it again in some other album, but this step is cumbersome and not always working.

> Why do I want a pile of .ogg (or .mp3) files?

Because all listeners are not the same. I for one, have two high quality listening systems (one is in the form of high end sound card, and other in the form as a proper Hi-Fi system), and am a former symphony orchestra player.

I personally appreciate the added resolution of lossless files and love to listen my favorite albums in lossless formats. When one gives the time and ear deserved by an album, the perception is very different, and the added resolution on the highs add a lot of immersion to the album in question.

I have a spotify membership, and it's convenient, yes. But it's not same as "listening to music" for me. Not close.

Also, opening your Spotify playlist and seeing some of your favorite songs missing due to license expiration is not nice. Been there, seen that.

Same for movies, but I'm not that of a movie nerd.

Collectors, DJs, artists and music enthusiasts all still have a great need for actual files. For the average user it might seem dumb, but to me, my Spotify/Apple Music/YouTube Music libraries all seem frail and there are multiple instances of songs being remastered and replaced, as well as artists changing the final versions after initial release (Kanye West comes to mind for one).

DJ's should be paying for the music they're playing. There are streaming options for them to use nowadays aswell. Take Beatport Link as an example: https://link.beatport.com/

Also, using .mp3 as DJ is unwritten crime.

> > DJ's should be paying for the music they're playing.

They are, separately from obtaining the material. Look up "performing rights" (which is specifically for songs; it's analogous for recordings, can't remember the exact name now).

> Also, using .mp3 as DJ is unwritten crime.

I would like to meet the person who can hear problems with well-encoded 320kbps mp3 when played in a crowded and noisy club.

The venue is responsible for acquiring performance rights. Not the DJ.

Authors get paid. The point stands, unless you want to argue that both the venue and the DJ should pay.

TL; DR: Music quality > Sound quality for me.

One DJ, Errorhead IIRC, recorded a track from a taxis stereo in colombia, crowd goes bonkers every time he plays it. I once had a DJ spinnin vinyl bore me to death, made me sad to think about how much he spent for those records. I much rather have bangin tunes in mp3 than that. Physically there might be a difference, mp3 filtering out stuff you "can't hear". Should affect the deep bass you can only hear and feel on a clubs PA.

I discovered awesome music in the worst quality you could imagine, midi files via a cheap soundcard. Even with plastic guitars, Led Zeppelin still sounds awesome.

I doubt you can tell the difference with lossy and lossless with a constantly clipping club sound system.

I have an "old" flash mp3 player that I just fill up with a pile of mp3 files for exercise. It weighs 70g, can be navigated blind in a pocket, is impervious to the ways smartphones break (falling damage) and the battery lasts a week. People might also have other motivations, such as wanting to decouple from a service that each week picks a new favorite song to make unavailable.

Which brand? I'd like to buy that. There's a lot of junk out there.

Well one reason is because Spotify's catalogue is constantly expanding/contracting so a song that you added to a playlist yesterday might be gone tomorrow.

It's easier until it isn't. That dvd will probably still be around 50 years later. Your spotify playlist? I highly doubt it.

The data maybe. The dvd wont be playable in 50 years. Not necessarily disk degradation but hardware obsolescence. You will need to keep copying every 10-20 years to supported media.

Well it's been 30 years for some of my cds and new hardware with cd support is still being created today. But maybe in another 20 years I will be too busy enjoying my flying car to care about my cds.

I don’t even know where the DVDs I had 10 years ago are. Lost in moving I guess. And I don’t have any devices to play them on. While my data online accounts are almost all still intact with all the data I left on them.

My use case for trying download mp3s was for DJing since Spotify no longer works with mixing software. I didn’t want to buy my entire collection per song and Beatport only offers dance/edm genres

Bust out a Tidal subscription- it works with Algoriddm & I think Serato still.

Files are freedom. Custody of the actual data represents a fundamental level of control that you don’t get with streaming. All the other responses give examples that are underpinned by this freedom.

then this isn't for you

My niece is one year old and has a simple speaker with hard drive full of baby music, a straightforward device she can use even by herself. Music helps her calm down whenever anything mildly upsetting happens and is frankly a lifesaver whenever I babysit (absence of parents is highly upsetting). Before buying this device and filling it with baby music MP3s, my sibling used a simple Bluetooth speaker and Spotify phone app with disastrous results.

A solid point. This reminds me the old days when I carefully programmed my VHS video to record Blade Runner from a public broadcast on TV. How happy I was. "Now I will be able to watch Blade Runner whenever I want!" I even remember having purchased a more expensive VHS tape just for that, I didnt want to have no image quality issues in the future.

There are places where files are useful. Being a DJ for example. You'll show up to a gig with a flash drive, plug it into the club equipment's USB port, and do your thing. You'd ideally be compensating your fellow artists for their work by buying files off of Beatport (or wherever) anyway. Seems a bit niche.

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