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Comment by hilbert42 | Hacker News Reader

Polite advice: I'd suggest that only those from the UK, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia and other outposts where black yeast extracts are consumed comment on this story.

Those in the US and elsewhere can watch on in amusement.

Warning: Australians and other Vegemite consumers please refrain from denigrating lovers of Marmite.

:-)

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Marmite vs Vegemite is a niche holy war of emacs vs vi levels - literally noone outside cares. Being in Shanghai with a bunch of UK and Aussie expats it came up a lot.

I'm Marmite/Emacs myself.

Exactly, and you're dead right only the protagonists care. BTW, the War's been running nearly a century,

I am now imagining this on dating platforms: Male/white/he,his/Marmite/Vi

Already said male, no pronouns needed

> Marmite vs Vegemite is a niche holy war of emacs vs vi levels

I'm deeply offended by this.

I started to write up a comment in my head about how this is a completely false equivalency, Marmite and Vegemite are basically the same thing: two brands of yeast paste while Vi vs Emacs are two very distinct editors with very distinct features. I was going to indignantly point out that while a Vi user put in front of emacs would be hard-pressed to see ANY similarities a vegemite fan given marmite probably couldn't tell the difference!

Then I realized: I am the problem and decided to adapt my comment for fake internet points.

Vi is definitely better though.

South African here and I have nothing polite to say about Marmite ;)

South African here and I agree.

Also South African, also agree.

See comment above.

So what's all the fuss about then? Surely someone there eats (and presumably likes) it.

My departed mother and aunts loved the stuff but I'll eat it out of desperation/under sufferance when Vegemite isn't available. Where both products are available in a bousehold there's never-ending wars over which is best. That's almost inevitable. :-)

I’m American and I ate a pretty good amount when I lived in the UK bc it’s high in B vitamins.

I made this “sandwich” with a crumpet, polish mayo (winiary), marmite and sometimes a scotch egg and/or sauerkraut. It was disgusting, I mostly created it b/c it was cheap, but it was a staple of mine and a very British one at that (aside from the kraut). The polish mayo is an import but I’d still say very london at this point, I got it from sainsburys, but could just as well have picked it up from any number of polish stores. Anyway, marmite’s alright.

winiary is owned by Nestle, so it's hardly polish mayo

This comment alone is probably enough to get you ongoing "indefinite leave to remain" and work in the UK.

Just take the "sandwich" with you to immigration.. fastest visa paperwork in the history of formal countries.

Most British thing ever said and it's not by a Brit

...But you had to dilute it with extras, that's cheating!

True 'native' eaters like me spoon it straight from the jar! No problems.... ;-)

Edit: shame there's no image posting here or I'd demonstrate (squirm factor).

I think Polish shops are pretty common across the UK these days - in Huntingdon (pop. 23k, 1 h north of London) there are at least two, and you can pick it up in the big supermarket (Tesco).

I think it has gone down a bit from the peak around 2016, but Poland became something like the third or fourth most common place of birth in the UK (after the UK, India and Pakistan I think) with roughly one million Polish immigrants.

[I have a Polish boyfriend living in the UK, so know too much about this ;-) ]

It's an extremely salty, umami taste. Both flavours most people like, but too much of a good thing for the unprepared palatte.

I like a thin layer of X-mite between a piece of toast and a fried egg. I find eggs need a lot of salt, so X-mite is a good combination.

Growing up my brother loved the stuff, but personally I could never figure out why...it really is an acquired taste.

Especially so if one's not introduced to it early - not long after weaning.

I tried both as an adult and like both on occasion. I cook with them more often than I use them as a spread though. Vegemite seems to have more and different vegetable flavors noticable. Marmite seems a little sweeter, like a savory nutella or hagelslag (sp?). I'll put either on toast with butter, but I like them a lot better in soups or stews. With thai fish sauce, for when you have a fever for more umame.

Good summary, you're unusual (and have good taste). :-)

South African here. Wash you mouth out with soap then eat some tasty Marmite with margarine on toast.

Does the soap hide the taste of the Marmite? Or is it the other way around?

The joke, such as it was, is based on the pun on the phrase "wash your mouth out with soap".

This is usually a punishment for children who have uttered taboo or blasephous words (the idea being that you said a dirty word and your mouth needs cleaning).

The other side being in reference to needing to litterally clean one's (dirty) mouth so that the taste of marmite can be savoured and enjoyed.

Condsider this JOKE EXPLAINED!!

This is the problem with the "marmite could lead to peace in the middle east" theory (high zinc content).

You would then have vicious infighting between those who love, and those who hate marmite.

Oddly, can't stand marmite usually, however, twiglets are ridiculously tasty.

> Oddly, can't stand marmite usually, however, twiglets are ridiculously tasty.

I'm entirely the other way round. Twiglets are a punishment meted out by an insane diety for consuming too many snacks in a former life.

Ha! see, like Marmite and Vegemite, they cause more polarization among consumers than US Republican/Democrat politics do among voters.

"...however, twiglets are ridiculously tasty"

Love 'em too (but don't often buy them as I've insufficient self-control to leave a packet half uneaten)! ;-)

> marmite could lead to peace in the middle east

Right after we finally decide who has the best hummus.

Margarine doesn't have enough salt for this dish. You need butter.

Bovril is obviously superior.

Uh, not if you're a Vegemite eater!

My British roommate in college always talked about Bovril, but with his accent, it sounded exactly like Bog Roll. It still makes me chuckle to think about.

I cannot get this in the U.S. thus I have to wince while consuming marmite.

But you are 101% correct.

Amazon has it but you're gonna pay for it.

I only see Bovrite.

Here is an alternative read for some of us: https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20220417-ajvar-the-vegan-...

Following up a week later just to say thank you for this link - I hadn't heard of this stuff, but have now found a source of it. It's delicious.

...and for those in New Zealand, this is not what you guys call "Marmite". I have no idea what's up with that but it's wrong. :P

Real Marmite should not be sweet. Ever. That's just ...wrong[1].

I once stayed a mate's parents in New Zealand and luckily they had a jar of the good stuff for me, sold there as "My Mate".

I think down to some kind of pre-war licensing shenanigans.

1. I'll let it slip though as Kiwi lemonade is awesome.

Kiwi lemonade?

Ah yeah I should clarify that, the lemonade that New Zealanders aka Kiwis have locally.

I can't quite remember the brand. Might have been L&P or something.

Yeah, L&P (Lemon & Peoroa). Good stuff! Though I remember it being carbonated.

L&P is indeed carbonated. Used to be reasonably easy to get in the UK, but almost impossible since covid.

You won't find non carbonated, yellow lemonade in NZ. As mentioned above, you'll just get sprite.

Oh yeah, that seems about right. I haven't been back there in 15 years, but when I lived there I encountered some oddities like that (as an American), and that fact sounds familiar.

I was also a bit stunned when I had ketchup there, because it's different from American ketchup. Much sweeter, not much vinegar, if any. The hotdogs were also different. When I went to high school (i.e. college) there, one day they had "American hotdog day", and they were like no hotdog I had in America. They were more like those red hot link sausages (which I've never seen anyone eat in America even though I've seen them in grocery stores). So that with their own version of ketchup made for an interesting experience, and was a neat allegory for how different parts of the world see each other.

Great place, that NZ. I really do miss it. Maybe I'll go back once once they finally chill out about COVID.

Anyone in doubt that US vs. UK and the other colonies are very, very different countries need not consider "lemonade" (Sprite) or Marmite.

Just order breakfast with toast. Anywhere except the US, the toast will come out on a "cooling rack". They actually want their toast cold! I have never found any hint why anyone would want this, but I did read an Ian Fleming short story in which James Bond, while in New York on (IIRC?) a personal vendetta to gun down some Cubans upstate, complains that his toast is delivered "damp".

While I am here, fair warning: if you are in Boston and order a milkshake, you will absolutely not get anything even slightly resembling a proper milkshake. You have to ask for a "cabinet". I am not joking.

If you ask for "lemonade" in NZ you're going to get Sprite.

There is nothing better in the Air New Zealand lounge than an L&P and Vegemite on toast transferring between flights. Settles the stomach beautifully.

Some of us Swiss consume https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenovis but I would not consider ourselves a British outpost.

  It is similar to English Marmite and Australian Vegemite.

OK, well those two things are completely different so clearly Cenovis is inferior to both. Even mentioning the English version is lame.

Having tried both I would not consider Cenovis similar to Marmite at all. More like distant second cousins at best

Apologies indeed!

'Outposts' as in those who live in 'odd' parts of the world where such delicacies are consumed and appreciated.

(Despite derogatory comments below you still qualify - see my Wiki quote re Vegemite to dfxm12!)

:-)

Is miso paste basically soybased marmite or are there any inherent differences?

Miso paste is made from fermented soybeans and often used to make soup; marmite is made from yeast extract, and usually spread on toast.

They're both salty and brown. Otherwise they have little in common.

I just experimented with putting a thin layer of shiro miso on my buttered toast.

It didn't quite work for me. Miso flavour turns out to be very compatible with toast but my test miso didn't have enough tang to cut through properly, so the impression it left was dominated by salt. Marmite and relatives are salty as well, but they have more bite in the flavour.

You might find that aka miso or doenjang have a flavor profile closer to what you're looking for.

Try freshly chopped celery, or carrot sticks and stick it into some fresh miso as if it were ketchup. Beautiful...

I like a smear of miso paste inside a grilled cheese sandwich.

FYI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

Whilst they are very different, miso paste is probably the closest thing to marmite that people in normal countries will encounter.

I believe miso paste is made by mixing cooked, mashed, soy beans with a culture of koji (_Aspergillus sojae_), and a certain amount of rice, used to grow the koji, and letting it ferment.

Marmite is made by mixing malted barley with yeast (_Saccharomyces cerevisiae_) and a lot of water, straining it, letting it ferment, skimming off the yeasty froth that forms on top (you can discard the liquid, although i think people have found other uses for it), washing the froth to extract the yeast, adding salt to induce autolysis, filtering out the solid bits of dead yeast, boiling it down, and adding some seasonings.

So although they are both made by fermenting something, the process is quite different. Miso is mostly soy bean, modified by the fungus, whereas marmite is mostly fungus, and is much more processed and concentrated.

Instructions:

https://msmarmitelover.com/2011/04/how-to-make-your-own-marm...

Normal countries?

Do you happen to know the difference between marmite and vegemite?

Yes, but its hard to expalin unless you've tasted both.

Here are brief Wiki extracts:

"Marmite is a brand of savoury food spread from the United Kingdom, based on yeast extract invented by German scientist Justus von Liebig. It is made from by-products of beer brewing (see Lees (fermentation)) and is currently produced by British company Unilever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite ..."

"Vegemite is a thick, dark brown Australian food spread made from leftover brewers' yeast extract with various vegetable and spice additives. It was developed by Cyril Callister in Melbourne, Victoria in 1922. ..."

A spread for sandwiches, toast, crumpets and cracker biscuits as well as a filling for pastries, Vegemite is similar to British Marmite, New Zealand Marmite, Australian Promite, MightyMite, AussieMite, OzEmite, German Vitam-R, and Swiss Cenovis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite."

Special note to Americans: Vegemite is owned by Kraft, a US multinational. So you're to blame for foisting it on the world!

Not anymore. Bega bought Vegemite from Mondelez, so it's Aussie through and through again.

OK, right. Thanks. So the label on my jar is out of date.

That's one for books, but as far as I recall Kraft was there from the outset in the 1920s (so it was really always US-owned until recently).

Edit: just checked the low-salt version (both are used here—it's the smaller jar) and the label is different. Never noticed that until now.

Reading those processes, got to wonder how someone first ran across these foods. Seems like an odd direction to go when looking for a new flavor. With that said I have never really delved into food creation so maybe I am completely wrong.

It’s a byproduct of brewing, instead of throwing it away someone figured out how to make it into a food.

"... into something people could be persuaded to consider food."

Marmite was invented fairly recently (late 19th/early 20th century), apparently by a german scientist who was studying food chemistry and nutrition. (In case you missed the joke, the liquid the parent suggests you can discard is beer).

Miso I know less about but my wild guess would be it's some sort of by product of trying to preserve food.

Not sure about Miso and Marmite being similar - I'm in the 'Hate Marmite' camp, but I have to stop myself spooning too much dark miso paste direct from the jar when I'm using it in cooking (and boy, do I try to use it in everything!).

They do have a bit of a similar flavor profile - intensely savory 'umami' type flavor. Marmite/Vegemite is a a lot stronger and saltier though, and does have its own unique flavor.

I'm an American from California, so there was always miso paste at the grocery store. I put it on buttered toast. I suppose this is how Commonwealthers use marmite/vegemite.

Right!

Miso isn’t similar, but something that _is_ is a spread called Gohan Desuyo.

It’s made from seaweed and soy sauce but I’ve found it to be very similar to marmite

https://japanesetaste.com/products/momoya-gohandesuyo-nori-s...

Hah I’m American and bought Marmite because Kenji Lopez Alt of Serious Eats fame suggested it as a great way to add Umami flavoring to a dish.

I mostly add it to other dishes, such as an ingredient in pot roast, but I did try it a thin layer on toast with some butter and I like it! Very intense but interesting flavor. My kids and wife go “yuuuck!” When they see the jar, though.

Nutritional yeast is pretty popular in the states.

I love nutritional yeast! Have never tried marmite though. Is it similar at all besides being yeast-based?

They both have a similar savory / umami flavor, but Marmite is much, much more intense and also quite salty unlike nutritional yeast.

Did anyone else see that apparently Marmite isn't even the best marmite? Somehow ze Germans have improved on it.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/food-and-drink/article/marmi...

This rang some major alarm bells.

"Marmite got a decent score overall, but tasters weren’t bowled over by it, with more than half finding it too strong in flavour and too thick. Some also found it more difficult to spread compared with the own-label options."

I expect the Aldi and other alternatives are watered-down fake Marmite for woke wimps who want yeast extract spreads to be more "inclusive". This country is toast.

Broad inclussion makes a country stronger, not weaker.

Germany has tried the "pure" route once before, it did not end well

Germany's "pure" route did not end well because they attacked others for being pure. Just because a culture has oddities which do not fit with a wider culture, it doesn't mean that the former should be reduced.

A sense of humor would be appropriate here.

(A digression, since you made the point. This isn't a contest between Nazism and a free-for-all. A society can be overly inclusive, of bad behaviors, ideologies, and other objective threats to its common good, in which case such inclusiveness does weaken the country[0]. I think it is fair to say you'd want to exclude Nazism and other aberrations from your country's political order?)

[0] https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2022/01/barron-on-diversity...

Please don't "Godwin[1]" the conversation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Sorry, but the germans started it.

> Germany has tried the "pure" route once before, it did not end well

What are you talking about? It went great, and it ended with them dominating Europe financially and industrially. Ethically it was a disaster of course, but practically observing the aftereffects you have to be kind of impressed. Not many countries get absolutely demolished and then manage to turn that into a win somehow.

Edit: I'm not fond of the Nazis, this is more of an observation.

Let's compare Germany with a made up family who we shall call ... Schmidt. Fritz Schmidt, the father, is doing more than good, he is one of the best engineers in the world, he is making good money. His house is smaller than he would like but he keeps it tidy and he is generally well respected. His two kids goes to the best schools.

One day something goes wrong with his brain and he goes on a murder spree.

Fritz goes to prison, his house is sold off to pay the victims families and his children are sent to separate orphanages.

Decades later one kid, Hans, have made it despite being reminded of his fathers crimes every day. His orphanage helped him with a good education and a very generous loan so he could start his own factory.

The other kid, Helmut, got a shit education and no loan and is hungry every day. Almost every month he has to beg Hans for money to pay the rent.

What a great outcome for the Schmidt family.

Nobody is debating the immediate outcome of the war. It was bad everywhere, even where it was not as bad as it could be.

Breakfast spread banter to Godwin's Law speedrun: NEW RECORD!

Connecting marmite to "wokeness" is a new one...

They include Vegemite but don’t include nz marmite? :(

Nz marmite is the beez kneez!

Gotta agree. Don't like how UK marmite has a sweet taste to it.

Colorado based lover of marmite here. Vegemite is off, maybe tangy enough. Anyhow, I was looking in to this a while back and there are many competitors and some people lump “beef spreads” in with them. Bovrite is one, Bovril is another that is illegal in the US (not sure if it’s illegal dangerous or illegal like fireworks) Promite, MightyMite, AussieMite, OzMite are some of the popular ones and there seem to be “organic” kind of more artisanal *mites in parts of the world.

The illegality of Bovril spooked me some and so I haven’t forked out the cash to do the grand taste test challenge as I am happy with marmite and actually able to procure it; it’d be terrible to find a better one that is unobtainable. Hearing about these others makes me think I should do it though.

>Bovril is another that is illegal in the US

It used to be, due to the BSE scare - legal now: https://newsstar.club/importing-bovril-to-the-usa-from-a-bri...

Think of it this way, it's so good it's illegal.

I don't think it ever caught on in Canada. I've don't recall ever hearing of anyone talking about Marmite. Neither grandparents or any ancestor stories, no talk of it.

Marmite is available in many grocery stores in here but commonly in the international foods aisle. My local store (rural Ontario) put in the baking section with the yeast. LOL

While certainly not a customary staple, it is commonly available here (and delicious). Marmite and PB on toast, yum.

Can Finns, with our love of Salmiak, tag along?

Bovril is vastly superior.

I agree, but Bovril is not made from yeast extract like Marmite is. So not really the same kind of product.

Actually, it's over a quarter yeast extract.

To be honest, having just checked, I think that's less than it was a while back, as I'm sure I recall being disappointed upon seeing the ingredients, and putting a jar back on the shelf after picking it up on a whim a while ago.

I just stick to my stock pots in hot water... .

Yes, a clearly superior product.

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