For FedEx Founder Fred Smith, the Sky Is Still the Limit
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This toxic hubris is a big part of what is wrong with our society. These men no longer look at their fortune as a series of lucky breaks, good timing and countless hands-up by others and their government. Things that are only possible in a society that paves the way ahead of them... Instead they think they and they alone are the reason that they're successful.
The fact is that everyone "stands on the shoulders of giants".
It seems that the concept of giving back and paying forward is absent in these men. Instead, they believe they're special and anoiteted by God to drive us in a particular direction. What a change from the 19th century Robber Barrens who gifted us institutions and built the very foundation of a reasoned society (schools, libraries, research institutions etc..). Today? We get personal rockets, politically motivated think tanks and awful narcissistic ideologues who want to rule over us...
For every Gates, there are a dozen Zucks masquerading as royalty and proving that absolute power (money) absolutely corrupts.
Some companies treat their employees better (Costco) or worse (Walmart), but at the end of the day it's all a byproduct of the structure and behaviors rewarded in capitalism.
The "winners" exploit the hardest, otherwise potential profits are being left on the table and it opens an opportunity for another company (who is willing to go the extra mile to exploit harder) to enter and offer lower prices. Subsequently, the working middle class and poor people (the largest segments of USA population) have their own harsh realities to deal with, and don't have the luxury of choosing more humane yet expensive alternatives when they are purchasing goods and services.
For a contrasting example, I prefer cooperatives where the people involved in the business control it democratically (which can still include directors and managers).
I assume if I am doing the hiring, then I will also be responsible for the additional hiring/firing, selecting the right talent, choosing the right way to compete against existing product/services? Is that not continued activity as I grow my start-up into a category-defining enterprise? How to allocate that profit, into R&D, more people, sales, etc, aka growing a company?
Then after doing that for 10 years that company is now worth billions of dollars and I own it. I don't see where in this chain I have done the exploiting?
I still think that directors should be well compensated commensurate with their capability and role. I just think that they shouldn't be able to exclusively control and take the profits generated by the work of everybody involved. Corporations are autocratic or oligarchic in that way - this leads to the select few that society seems worthy of profit control having more power in our society. This is because the owners can keep workers' wages as low as the market will sustain while inflating their own total compensation to absurd proportions, as we've seen. With a cooperative structure everybody involved has a stake in controlling the company, so executives have to take everybody's needs including the workers, into account, instead of just looking out for themselves and investors.
As for where the exploitation comes in - it probably comes down to different perspectives on the word. To me, it's exploitation if one person is profiting off the labour of another. Of course in a company the shareholders are often also working, but if a company grows to a billion dollars from a million its not because the directors are working 100x harder.
You believe that when you join an organization you automatically have a say in how it is run.
So yeah, I think you should have a voice in how the company you work for is run.
(This of course does not apply to the very disadvantaged)
How is providing the two jobs not contributing to the economy?
How do you clear $60,000 on widgets? What about the costs of supplies, insurance, compliance to government regulations, city/state/county/federal taxes, import duties,R&D, documentation, advertising, and so on?
I didn't make an argument about whether it was contributing to the economy or not, but that doesn't matter - slavery contributed to the economy too, but it's also morally wrong.
It's a stripped down hypothetical on purpose, to get to the heart of the question. Non-labour material concerns are left as an exercise for the reader.
We live in different world. Thank you for your response.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/exploita...
> the act of using someone unfairly for your own advantage
But we probably just disagree on the meaning of "unfairly" within that definition.
> one person profits off the work of another
Trade needs to benefit both parties.
Fred Smith’s wealth comes from the notional value of his ownership of a small fraction of an enormously successful and societally useful business. It’s not as if he has a bank account with billions of dollars in profits paid as salary in it, which you seem to believe.
On what basis do you think he should have been compelled to sell his stake in the company he created?
Yes, you’re correct that he didn’t earn a billion dollars. He created a company that investors value at $60B, and his remaining 6% share of it is worth $4B. That $60B was not taken from anyone. It was created - out of thin air - by organizing workers in a way that the world needed.
No. The idea that a company is something you "own" rather than a group of people doing some kind of economic activity is a social construct, and one designed to disenfranchise the people doing the ongoing work. A company is a collection of assets and people - to own assets makes sense, to own other people's labour in an ongoing capacity does not.
> On what basis do you think he should have been compelled to sell his stake in the company he created?
I don't think he should - I think we should change the system that allows people to be worth billions off the backs of others. I don't want redistribution, I want reform.
1. The owners get some property rights ("ownership") for the money they put up to buy the airplanes and related other tools. Or,
2. When an employee is hired by FedEx, they have to come up with... something of the order of $60 billion / 100,000 employees, to pay your share of the enterprise you are becoming part of. Or,
3. We as a society don't have any capital-intensive companies. Who's going to buy the tools, if the one putting up the money doesn't get ownership? (And don't say "government". Government running private enterprise almost always winds up with too much mismanagement and graft.)
In the former (investor) case the payment can be structured as a loan, and/or investors can become stakeholders as part of a multi-stakeholder cooperative, with their own cut of the earnings. In the latter case it's no issue because the company is buying things with its own resources.
Second, yes the profit in the marketplace is still exploitative to a degree, but we don't have a viable alternative so there's not much to do about that. I don't believe there's much point critiquing something when there's no alternative.
Heres sort primer to for anyone that is not up to speed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_antit...
I am asking about this passage:
> So no, we should want their greed exposed and not papered over by philanthropy so that the public eventually realizes that people accumulating and hoarding that much wealth is damaging to society and enact appropriate taxation schemes to claw back what they have stolen and prevent anyone else from ever doing it again.
It states explicitly that people are hoarding wealth and must be punished for it. For example, if your 401(k) is worth half a million dollars and your house is worth $1 million, a person living on $300 a month in a less privileged country might be forgiven for assuming that you should be punished for “hoarding“ wealth.
So I’m trying to understand what number hoarding starts at, and what the punishment should be.
I think the guideposts should be to put limits on how much influence a single person should have in our society, or to limit the amount of influence we unintentionally give one person just by participating in the economy. For example, if I buy a product from a company that has a large advertising spend on Facebook, I am indirectly, perhaps even unknowingly adding to the personal wealth of Facebook's owner just because of some decisions that someone else made. Now the libertarian response to that is to research each and every product you buy, but that quickly becomes an impossible task for any one person to do, much less every person. Not only is the quantity of information too large, but some information is simply inaccessible to the public at large.
So, to answer your question more directly, I can give you my personal opinion. I think capital gains should be taxed the same as regular income, inheritance taxed as regular income, unrealized gains taxed as regular income (above some threshold perhaps), and progressive taxation to asymptotically approach 100%. Right now our top tax bracket ends at 37% at $539,900 income for an individual. It's at 35% for incomes from $215,950 to $539,900. I'd call that roughly a 2% rise for a ~250k rise for back-of-the-envelope calculation purposes. So linearly extrapolating that out, maybe the top tax bracket becomes 100% after somewhere around $10mm annual income. And since you pay taxes on that $10mm, you maybe can accumulate somewhere in the neighborhood of $5mm a year. And that's generous in my opinion, because lower income tax payers pay an 8% increase (24% to 32%) to go from ~$90k to ~$170k, so it's not like its a linear function for workers.
And then how do we 'catch up' on back taxes? You kind of establish a concept of a 'maximum wage' at some point in a progressive taxation scheme that approaches 100%. I think one fair-ish way of doing it would be to cap wealth at that level, so that if the maximum income is let's say $5mm, you can keep $5mm for each working year of your life, anything beyond that being due as back taxes. So if you're 65 you could still have ~$235mm, which seems like plenty to me. And when that person dies, their children's inheritance is taxed as regular income as well and effectively capped at $5mm or so (whatever it turns out to be), so there's little point to dying with hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank.
Maybe not those exact numbers, but somewhere around there seems reasonable to me. But my opinion is just one opinion, and a big change like this should be determined through the political process with inputs from everybody.
I do agree completely agree with the final paragraph.
I’d prefer a simple 20% federal consumption tax on everything we buy, period, and no corporate welfare of any kind.
But a 20% consumption tax isn't the answer. The problem the GP is trying to address is how much the rich have, not how much they spend. The rich spend less of what they have - that's how they stay rich. A spending tax won't touch them.
I agree that corporate welfare needs to go.
I agree. Perhaps we differ on this: How rich someone else is has no bearing on me. In fact, I love it when people get rich.
I'm sure you'll agree that you are wealthy beyond measure to hundreds of millions, maybe billions, of people in the world. They could well be stunned and angry at the way you spend money.
> The rich spend less of what they have - that's how they stay rich.
Not sure I agree. Many people appear to be rich but are actually in over their heads. Look at many, many pro athletes five years out of their careers.
And back then, mainstream Christian churches were a far more important social institution. Acting as the "generous Christian" was probably far more important to one's standing in "well-born" society.
Also: look at what FedEx pays in Fed taxes. Its zero most years.
This phrase always bothered me because the giant isn't a single person but a stack of people. Knowledge is cumulative.
for the average worker: 15 per hour average FedEX package handler salary - from another source on the shipping industry “They underpay everyone. The cost per package is literally .12 to .40 cents and we’re paying people $50.00 to unload four 45ft. trailers in 3.5 hours.”
making a company a success by shortchanging the little guy is the American Way.. the American public is fine getting their crap delivered fast..as long as its cheap right
The problem they have is that geography drives the business, and their hubs are usually near competing hubs for UPS. They must have made a policy decision to not get into a price war re: wages with UPS.
My guess is that Amazon's logistics buildout is hurting them more than UPS.
You don't like it? Well you can set an example and you can start working for $9/hour.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-04/labor-sho...
>The massive labor shortage that’s rocked the U.S. since the pandemic and disrupted long-established employment relationships hasn’t had much impact on UPS, which pays its unionized drivers the highest wages in the industry. That’s helped it maintain a stable workforce and rising profits throughout the current disruptions. Meanwhile, lower-paying, nonunionized FedEx racked up $450 million in extra costs because of labor shortages. And while UPS easily beat earnings expectations and predicted a rising profit margin in the U.S. for the fourth quarter, FedEx signaled that its profit margin will fall further.And like his image drawn in to make him look 43 but with white hair, and a bunch of airplane tails?
Fellatory news article.
> In March 2020, at age 75, Fred Smith should have been winding down his legendary career as CEO of FedEx. Then Covid-19 hit, everyone’s life turned upside down, and the company he founded had to save the world—“literally,” he says, with no small amount of passion.
Like what? Is he a hero? A Roman Law hero?
> “We, and UPS, and to a lesser degree the Postal Service and a company called DHL, literally kept the world operating,” Mr. Smith declares. “I don’t think that what our people did is understood or appreciated nearly to the extent it should be.”
A lot of those communications went digital, in fact, that's the con going on here. Digital communications took over to a huge degree, so his company is doing worse, so that's why he's paying for a fellatory article on the wall street journal blog, he wants to create buzz around his company.
560,000 employees in 220 countries? I thought it was 190 countries, what the fuck? He doesn't have 560,000 employees either.
Volume-wise, yes. But also most of the volume handled by USPS is bulk mailers that nobody wants to receive in the first place.
Another interesting note on Fred Smith, among many on Wikipedia, he inherited $4M dollars and put it all into starting Fedex, creating the $50B company we know today.
The comments in this thread act like the article is committing the great man fallacy because it's talking about the work the founder put into FedEx. Yet, all of that is (presumably) factually accurate, which doesn't detract from larger systemic points, but certainly shouldn't encourage darts to be lobbed. The only folks who can possibly throw stones here are those who are ignorant of the realities of global logistics. Physical logistics is HARD, significantly harder than any problem the average tech worker has had to deal with in their life of air conditioned offices and ever more powerful systems available to them to solve problems.
I mean, my god, FedEx solved the logistical hurdles of package delivery so thoroughly they were able to put an API on top of it. That's got to be worth at least a little admiration.
Bold of you to assume every negative comment is from some ignorant untraveled American.
> As someone who grew up relatively poor in a rural part of the US
Hey, me too! which is doubly annoying considering the thick veneer of condescension in your comment.
Logistics is a hard problem, and fedex has some really interesting stories about that, but don’t come in here and start saying I’m privileged for criticizing the CEO when he’s so out of touch it’s comical.
The fact that he comes from money makes this whole thing even more ridiculous. He did not build anything from scratch, he literally started on 3rd base and was handed his field position before he even started...
This also seems to ignore the fact that UPS existed decades before his company, a company that he intentionally named Federal Express to fool people into thinking it was a government entity...
Naming his company- even better, he apparently gave his dozen or so planes random serial numbers to give the impression he had way more planes. Plane #136 coming in!
Starting at 3rd base- this might be said of the Fords or for the Waltons, but Fred did not inherit the business he built. Yes he had a privileged start, but his daddy certainly didn't hand him an air freight business.
I certainly understand not liking his politics. His comments in the article are bristly.
Fred was trained by the US Gov to fly, went to the most exclusive schools and inherited 40million in the 70s! That's 250million today... You can think this is a story of a selfmade man but you'd be wrong. He may have built a business, but he did it from the highest rings of the ladder having been placed there by his privilege.
Citation needed.
> inherited $4M dollars
There it is! With just a small loan of $4 million you too can be a titan of industry.
Regarding the inheritance, yea its nice, but where is the magical easy button that got him to where he is today. Your comment is sarcastic and not constructive.
It was sarcastic, but it was absolutely constructive of my argument.
> where is the magical easy button
>>> Regarding the inheritance
There. It’s right there. I don’t understand how this is not plainly understood as the easy button.
> It would be nifty to have a non-biased source
Yeah, right? Like what a great thing a source would be right now. I’m glad we can all find common ground.
> but I couldn't match the Fed's offer.
Sounds like the free market won. I don’t know why you’re complaining, this is what you wanted.
One would think that after getting whomped by the ecommerce explosion 20 years ago and scrambling to buy a ground operation he would focus within. As a customer, they seem to be behind the 8-ball with anything outside of that business.