Siri: Apple's trojan horse | Hacker News Reader

Siri: Apple's trojan horse

fabiandesimone.com

121 pointsfabiandesimone44 comments

If anything I see the opposite happening. Siri will pull users away from search and advertisers and back towards expert guides and personal recommendations.

  Siri, what was that restaurant that John liked?
  Siri, where should I eat with my birthday friends?
  Siri, recommend me a live gig?
  Siri, recommend me a funny movie?

Suddenly we have have all the possibilities of the social graph and Netflix-style recommendations.

Would Apple be bold enough to use Siri to collect & correct this information?

  Sam, did you enjoy the film?
  Yes, Siri, very much
  How many stars out of five would you give it?
  Four.
  Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future.

It would be fascinating if this happened:

  Would you like to recommend it to your friends?
  Yes, Siri, I would.

I could see a vague possibility of Songbird-style interactions, too.

  Siri, can you notify me when tickets for The National are announced.
  Siri, please let me know when the next Quiz Night is going to be.

I doubt Apple will ever do this, but you never know:

  Siri, please inform me of upcoming special offers at HealthSpa

  Sam, did you enjoy the film?
  Yes, Siri, very much
  How many stars out of five would you give it?
  Four.
  Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in    the future.

I Could totally see this happenning in a Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB app. if Apple ever allow third party apps access to Siri APIs.

Criticker might be a better option, since the recommendations backend is already in place.

(Note, I'm not affiliated, just a happy user)

Off topic—

  Sam, did you enjoy the film?
  Yes, Siri, very much
  How many stars out of five would you give it?
  Four.
  Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future.

Has anyone watched the 2009 film Moon? I read that whole conversation in Kevin Spacey's voice.

I didn't even realize I was doing it until you mentioned it.

I read it in a HAL 9000 voice:

"The Siri AI series is the most reliable computer ever made. No Siri AI has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error. "

I like your first set of examples. I keep thinking it would be great if it were integrated with OpenTable. Then you could ask for recommendations for a restaurant with availability for a reservation at a specific time or time range and then reserve it. That would be a killer experience.

I'm not sure though about Siri asking for more information though. Having your phone start asking you questions would be disruptive -- the audio equivalent of a pop-up on a webpage asking you to fill out a survey. The only thing that would make Siri asking you for information unprompted than the pop-up is that it could happen anywhere.

I'm more worried about the follow use case:

  Siri, did you enjoy the film?
  Yes, Sam, very much
  How many stars out of five would you give it?
  Four.
  Thank you, Siri. Would you like to go to dinner?
  No thank you.  Would you like to play a game?

This is exactly what I want. :)

I was just remarking the other day about how much I am hoping Siri comes with a Joshua voice.

You may wonder why Apple just released an iTunes Movie Trailers app:

http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/12/apple-releases-itunes-movie-tr...

Well the 'trailers' part is just an excuse. Its real purpose is to provide the showtime and ticket purchase facilities which can then be hooked up to Siri to automate all of this. Apple currently uses Rotten Tomatoes for its movie ratings on the iTunes Store, but as you mention the integration of the iTunes Movie Trailers App, Siri and user feedback is likely the future plan to replace any reliance on third parties.

The next step for Siri is e-commerce; to integrate purchasing of tickets & table bookings through the voice interface. The original Siri (prior to Apple) did this and its only a matter of time that Apple re-introduces it with that extra bit of polish and automation through the iTunes / App Store CC account.

In fairness to the author, I don't think this was intended as an "Apple is evil" post, though using the term "trojan horse" makes for great linkbait.

I don't see that this is that far-fetched. Considering how many other mobile phones have adopted features that debuted on the iPhone, it isn't much of a stretch to imagine a startup designed to allow you opt in to location-based discounts that are cued in part by your voice memos or location check-ins. Apple might not be the one to do it, but it is definitely a tempting revenue stream... if the database knows that 250 people who have "wife's shoes" on their reminder list are currently within walking/driving distance of the local mall, why not? Google already reads your email to serve up ads.

This kind of thing is why I don't have have a facebook page, a gmail account, or a smarter phone than a Blackberry. I love technology and software, always want to have the latest and greatest, but my data has to stay mine, and I can remember who to buy shoes for well enough on my own. But I also realize that makes me a minority and an oddity. Most people don't care if their phone knows everything about them, and they would probably be happy to have it remind them to buy flowers for 25% off on the way back from the bar.

Thank you. It was never intended as an "Apple is evil" post.

I realized after posting the article that using Trojan Horse could come of as negative.

Ah yes, it's always "I realized after posting..."

TL;DR This article is all about a theoretical future where Apple turns evil and starts making deals with ad networks to pollute your Siri experience.

Pure FUD.

Of course is theory.

Not sure where you get the evil part though.

I think is quite convenient.

Or it's an installed app that uses siri's API (in the future)

Consumer downloads the GAP app and whenever you enter a GAP store get a coupon (opt-in)

The interesting thing is that you think this behaviour is evil. From Apple's (or Google's, for that matter) POV, they're streamlining your life and removing some of the pain of shopping by suggesting stores and products that you might like, deals you can benefit from when you're shopping for something specific, and the like. In the case of Google, their ability to target ads to your interests allows them to provide free applications like Search, Maps, GMail, etc. For Apple, although giving customers price relief would be highly out of character, new revenue streams open new possibilities for future devices and services to take the annoyance out of life.

By using these services, we are implicitly (or explicitly) agreeing to hand over our personal information. It might make us uncomfortable that Apple knows our wife's shoe size and favorite brands, but if we happen to be out to lunch next to a shoe store that's having a 40% off sale and our phone lets us know, is it really that bad?

I'm not saying I'm entirely comfortable with the proposition, but I can see why it might end up coming about. It won't be because Apple/Google?Facebook are Evil; it will be because consumers respond to it. For enough people, it will be a worthwhile trade off to forego some privacy in exchange for a useful service.

>> but if we happen to be out to lunch next to a shoe store that's having a 40% off sale and our phone lets us know, is it really that bad?

For me, yes, because it interrupts what I'm doing and breaks my focus. If I really need shoes, then show me the best deal on shoes when I've expressed intent and I'm not otherwise occupied. Otherwise, I don't want to hear about it. That's why Google's ads are great, and I hate the rest - it's a high bar, and most companies just don't care about you enough to hold back from imposing their ads at times when it doesn't make sense.

Perhaps more interesting is that you see an equivalence between what Google does and what it is proposed Apple might do.

As you say, with Google, the proposition is clear: You get free email and other Google services; Google monetizes them with contextual advertising. With Apple, the proposition is also clear: You pay upfront; Apple supplies you with integrated hardware and software. This is a proposition that Apple upset that balance.

Post-return-of-Jobs Apple (and really Apple throughout its history, though more cleanly and clearly recently) has, for all its success and all its innovation, been very very traditional at its core: It sells hard goods to public consumers in exchange for cash. I don't think Apple has any interest in flipping that incredibly successful equation and selling its consumers to advertisers.

iAd is an obvious-feeling exception to this, of course. That said, iAd has clearly never been a focus, it's always felt like an "I guess we should," and maybe a poster child for WebKit in the commercial/ad space, but not as a significant means to an end for the company. How often is iAd discussed by Apple or anyone else, especially compared to everything else they do.

They also sell content in their online stores, but that is also a false lead, because it differs from Google and social network styles of digital monetization. They're still selling CONTENT to CONSUMERS there, and they're only doing it because they want Apple hardware to be the thing people buy to consume their media.

When selling iCloud, they have repeatedly pointed out that its an advertising free service. "Who wants ads in their email?" was the sentiment expressed at its announcement.

Apple suddenly shifting gears, turning their precisely built, paid for and profitable consumer goods into trojan horses for bundled adware seems nearly entirely unlikely.

Letting users INSTALL that sort of thing wouldn't be a surprise -- "Siri, play 'Super Troopers' on Netflix" -- but that's, again, the user using a paid for service or product on the device, not the user being sold to an advertiser.

Agree, but Apple has also always appealed to artists/lovers of the arts, and post-return-of-Jobs Apple translated that into the iPod and iTunes/iTunes Store, the latter of which is filled with things like reviews and ads of sorts, or at least digital movie posters and album covers. So I wouldn't be surprised if Siri/Apple found some non-annoying way to turn you on to new movies/music.

A compelling theory, but it would be totally unlike Apple to pull something like this.

Why would Apple pollute the sublime, simple experience of using Siri with advertisements? It would be uncharacteristic - it's not like a company like Apple needs to do anything like this when they generate revenue through so many other streams.

Surely people should be writing (they already briefly were before Siri was known) about Google's attempt at this, including email and os on. Google is far more likely to grab from every source it has, including email, in the background. I'd expect Siri to only read emails you refer to (Siri, what was that restaurant from the email this morning?). FUD with Google isn't as far off as it sometimes seems (yes, agreeing with fud is stupid, but still).

I don't buy it. Having siri respond to a create reminder command with a bunch of computer-read text about what you could buy nearby would be so obnoxious and disruptive that it would undermine the user experience. Who would want to use that?

Also, it's not clear to me why they would need to create a crap user experience for some ad revenue when they get such high margins on their devices. They don't seem to be having trouble making money.

Agreed, it's just too ugly. Steve Jobs would never let that happen. Oh wait.

This is just a bunch of made-up bullshit. I don't see why Apple is to blame for this author's active imagination.

Imagine the horror if Apple partnered with Facebook, and allowed them access to Siri.

Complete world domination.

I just have to re-quote the best (IMO) comment below that article here (it's not mine):

----

Blake October 12, 2011 at 6:14 pm

Next thing you know, you find yourself spending more time with Siri. She understands you. She can practically predict what you’re going to do. While Siri does nag you, she only does so in ways that you request. What started out as a few commands here and there turn into long conversations over candlelight. Soon, you find yourself avoiding your wife to be able to spend more time with Siri. After all, Siri doesn’t ask for much and is always eager to listen to whatever you have to say.

Unfortunately you didn’t have the foresight to see that Siri is a harsh mistress. Soon, the iPhone 5 will be released and with it will come a better version. Siri 2.0 will start wooing you with her helpful ways and ask you to leave the old Siri behind. But by then it will have been too late. Siri knows the intimate details of your every life. She’s been listening into all your conversations, reading all your emails. And she never forgets.

Improving devices and technologies are taking certain things out of our hands and heads. More and more by the hour actually...

facebook is there to remind us on birthdays for example. now... it might sound stupid, but i don't care about those reminders and i am not that friend of yours who says happy birthday when seeing the alert. i usually log in at night, so if i forgot someones birthday, i let it slip.

i am pretty sure this sounds more than crazy, but i just ignore the part of technologies where they would change my personality...

i just hope the freed up space by advancing technologies will be put to better use, so instead of keeping your wife's birthday or your 34th anniversary in your mind, you'll invent a more efficient way to burn fuel, or thinking smaller, a better combination of spices for your bbq.

Something I noticed this week: if you use the Apple Store app and are within a few hundred metres of an actual Apple Store, the app pops up a window with upcoming One2One sessions and genius bar openings.

You can also check-in for your appointments via the app. It's really very convenient.

Not sure if apple will go for the advertising bit, but I really really like the example you gave with your wife. That would be a life saver. I also love that sign off line - BB sucks :)

The feature of reminding you to do X when you are near Y is part of the Reminders app, not Siri. Siri only has the logic to take a verbal request and add a reminder to that app.

I think you guys are using your imaginations a bit too much. From every Siri video I've seen, it just seems like a typical text-to-speech recognition and doesn't work nearly as good as advertised. Just look how many times it flops in this demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNcnj2l6RE. The guy even admits that "Siri doesn't always work as expected, hence the beta tag".

Apple's business model has apparently based on selling premium products at a premium price, not giving away some products and selling in add-ons.

I agree.

Apple protects the user experience. I can respect that and I trust them more than most companies. I'll admit, they even will push their own services and block out other offerings. However, they don't just sell out in cheap, forceful ways.

I'm not worried... yet...

Imaginative, yes. Possible, yes. Likely, who knows. But Siri could be the first step towards real AI, and this guy painted the picture pretty clearly. Bravo

The important question nobody is asking about Siri is actually "Will Siri make my iPad 3 porn experience weird?"

Apple - a future where you'll pay to be the product

That sounds totally unlike Apple. Last time I checked, Apple made its billions by selling products and software, not ads.

They do have iAds, but they specifically designed those to be as unobtrusive as possible, and developers have to decide if they want to use them in their apps.

I wonder whether Apple lost interest in iAds a little when they realised the potential of Siri to replace search: suddenly they had a better way to disrupt Google.

Or maybe Apple doesn't know anything about the ad business and has executed poorly. No need to over think it.

Or maybe they don't need to: http://www.bnet.com/blog/advertising-business/inside-the-rev...

This is the worst prediction ever.

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