How to sign off an email. Epistolary etiquette for the 21st century | Hacker News Reader

How to sign off an email. Epistolary etiquette for the 21st century

economist.com

"Regards”. “best wishes”. “Warmly”. “Cheers”. “Take care”. The words at the end of a professional email may seem banal."
First, go easy on informality. ....Affectionate terms such as “toodles” or “lots of love” do not enhance proximity to the recipient unless the closeness is already there. “Smiles” is unspeakable."
"Use proper grammar and spelling."

"Avoid being prescriptive. “Have a nice day”, “Happy Monday” or “Take it easy” emphatically do not promote relaxation."

Reading over this, it doesn't seem to give any concrete examples of what, precisely, one should close an email with. A lot of advice about what not to say, it's like we should end emails with just "End of email, Goodbye."

This is brilliant.

Probably trying hard not to be a rule book.

I've heard that "have a nice day" is prescriptive or even rude before and I just don't get it. It's not saying "I demand you have a good day", it's "I hope you have a good day".

That said, I just don't use signatures unless required to by corporate policy.

Fussell's response to "Have a nice day".

"Thank you, but I have other plans."

> I've heard that "have a nice day" is prescriptive or even rude before and I just don't get it.

For some people, 'have a nice day' is code for 'f you'. Dropping your kid off and they're being a pest, but you don't want to drop an f-bomb? Tell them to 'have a nice day'. Your parent is being a pest while dropping you off? Tell them to 'have a nice day'.

Then it's a little weird when a snack machine says it, and kind of fitting when it's on the front of the Facebook commute busses.

'Have a good day' is totally fine though. I mean it's still gonna upset the people who had other plans, but at least it's not rude.

You are trying to outrun a euphemism treadmill of sarcasm. It won't work. Once you assume that words don't mean what they say, you can't solve the problem by changing words.

Basically what happens in fascism

Yes, the article is a vapid piece of crap. I wish I had the time I spent reading it back.

"Cheers" is my go-to. "Thanks" has somewhat positive connotations, and "Best" has a little stink on it.

If I ever send an email that ends in "Toodles" that's exclusively because I need for the person to understand the depth of my disdain for them or the predicament that led to that email in a way that is not subject to legal action or discovery.

I like "cheers" for informal email or for people I've had a longer professional relationship with.

I think its too intimate/informal for new acquaintances or new customers, so "regards" gets used for that. I think its a better sign off for conveying deference and respect, without sounding like Mr Darcy with "yours sincerely".

That one I reserve for lawyers .

I think I’ll try “end of email, goodbye” and see if anybody even notices. The odds of somebody reading to the bottom of an email message are already low as it is…

Thanks,

I see those signatures as rather excessive, perhaps archaic: headers already make it clear from whom the message is, it's clear where it ends, and most people have personal email addresses. Worse yet, the most common practice seems to be to auto-attach a long signature -- some combination of one's name, title, contact information, organization logo, Apple and antivirus software advertisements -- to a message that was composed carelessly and seemingly very quickly. Slapping "Yours sincerely" onto that wouldn't really improve how it looks to the reader (at least when the reader is me), would rather make it look even more like spam. It probably would look nice in a well-written email, as a fitting decoration, but otherwise I find those to be closer to misplaced decorations. Though as decorations go, a more modern way would be to M-x spook [1] (edit: to be clear, that's a joke about M-x spook).

Some people skip greetings too, particularly in IMs, and I think that makes sense as well: a greeting is actually useful in speech, even more so over a phone (or some other unreliable channel, especially when you don't see the other person), but doesn't seem to be useful in a textual message (though some use it as a ping, and some are unhappy about such usage too).

[1] Flood China Eco terrorism Mudslide Organized crime S Box BBE press-release smuggle Atlas CIO Drug war Sundevil IED CCC

And you forgot "Please consider the environment before printing this email.", with some tree emoticon alongside it.

Formally, I do not use sign-offs. There are so many wrong ones and so few correct ones, I just say the final thing I mean to say, and my name. However, if there were one convention we should start again, it would be ending with this.

Beware.

-m

Thanks,

Best,

[full name]

Works for (almost) all cases IMHO. You can drop your last name if there is a slight relationship or less formal. And I just drop down to -[first name] after the relationship is there and for ongoing conversation/threads. "Cheers" is nice but don't think it hits as well in US.

American here, similar style, I just use 'Thanks' instead of Best. They're similar in just being short and kind and impersonal. I think both are about perfect. Anything less seems unprofessional, anything more sticks out like a sore thumb.

Usually just my first name unless it's formal and introductory, as my email will come from First Last as the sender already.

Cheers is fine in the US I think, but I at least assume the speaker is British or Aussie. If I know they're American, it comes across a little pretentious or inauthentic IMO...same as when Americans say 'the states.' Makes me roll my eyes but not like day ruining or relationship affecting.

I use "Thanks" any time my email contains a request and something like "Best" if the email is just to notify them of something.

I like to think of it as multipurpose.

Thanks for understanding.

Thanks in advance(for a question or quote)

Thanks for reading (for notification)

If I were to deliver bad news or price increases or something, which I don't currently have to do thankfully, I'd probably go with best as well.

"Thanks in advance" is generally considered bad etiquette as it is directive and, really doesn't add anything. It's just nicer all round to thank in reply.

A manager at my company finishes all his mails to those who aren’t his superiors with “A très vite” which means “See you/hear from you very soon”.

I always want to do that with people I don’t work directly with. But I’m not cocky enough yet.

Interesting. I guess I can see why, depending on context.

Like, if ordering someone to do something for you, thanks in advance would seem arrogant or even rude.

When asking a question or seeking advice, it to me feels more polite.

That said, I'm far from an etiquette guru, just thinking out loud.

Kind of similar to how I think of best but thanks is to preemptive if there is no ask so I add it in main message when there is something that was completed.

Exactly

Brit here. I don't know why but I really dislike Best. I use Cheers, [name] and sometimes Thanks, [name]

Honestly I would find "Best," confusing, and I don't think I've ever seen it before.

What is it supposed to mean? "All the best"? "Best wishes"? Why not just say that?

Depending on the rest of the content I would probably assume either that someone was going for one of the above and didn't even notice that they a word, or that the author is a non-native speaker translating something from their primary language.

Yes, I think it's supposed to be sort for "best wishes" or "best regards". It's part of a trend in email correspondence where people seem to think that typing an extra few letters will cost them too much time (which of course is money). The same way you get people typing "pls" and "tks" in emails.

I'm not being lazy. It's a simpler way to end an email and wishes and regards sounds silly to end an email with to me. Best covers more bases.

Australian here.

"Cheers" to close colleagues.

"Kind regards" for other internal correspondence.

"Yours sincerely" for external correspondence where the recipient is named.

"Yours faithfully" for external correspondence not addressed to an identified individual.

If you emailed me this way, I would wonder why you’re being so dang informal, and feel self conscious about anything I wrote as a reply.

I meant to type “so dang formal”. Can’t edit now…

Another Australian here. “Cheers” or “Regards” every time. I see no need for greater formality than that.

I agree.

For completeness, some people find "regards" a bit blunt, and therefore qualify it with "Kind".

I don't really see the issue, but "Kind regards" is orthodoxy in many Australian workplaces.

"Yours faithfully" is just weird. Faithful to what? Why are you faithful to an unidentified individual or entity? Not judging you personally here; it's just weird. Sounds archaic, borderline creepy.

It's the traditional formal signoff where the recipient is not addressed. I understand it is of British origin. My guess as to its meaning is, since it is not addressed, you are faithful to the recipient that it will get to the right place. When I send correspondence externally, it is formal in nature. I have just followed templating conventions.

I think it is out of place for less formal communications.

When I was a youngling, my uncle would travel abroad..when he was in the Middle East, he’d write back long letters to me..it was this thin paper called onion skin…because in those days, mail was weighed and postage was determined on the basis of weight. He used the letters to teach the region’s history from Jordon to Palestine to Israel to Iran…and also post cards.

Post cards are sadly out of fashion. I have a whole collection of them that family sent each other from all over the world..There will be an image on one side and a box for address and a tiny space for message.

You could see the personalities of the various family members from what they try to cram within that tiny space or how empty it was..

My favourite: There is one from Egypt circa 1957 where someone on a world tour scribbled that they were going to end trip and return home because they were out of mango pickle(vegetarian Indian Brahmin family of 4 and had curd rice throughout the itinerary. Packed a jar of mango pickle from home.), but made a ‘friend’ at the embassy who made an Egyptian version of preserved lemon which ‘will do’.

But I digress..everyone of these postcard communications will always end with ‘affly’. And for the longest time..until I was in my teens, I’d use it to sign off like that too. And a friend asked me wth is ‘affly’ because it sounds like ‘awfully’. I had no clue, of course.

I asked my mom and she said that it was ‘yours affectionately’ shortened because the postcard space was too small.

I still use ‘affly’ in my communications with family.

It’s fun when reading very old books and correspondence to see how conventions have changed. For instance, in the 1780s, George Washington and his contemporaries often closed letters with variations of “I am, dear sir, Your most obedient humble servant…”

In a particularly informal letter, the same might even be abbreviated to “I am, etc.”

I was taught "Yours truly" in school, so these old styles have only been shortened, not eliminated.

+1 for "your most humble and obedient servant". Perhaps prefixed with "in eager anticipation of your reply". We threw the baby out with the bathwater when we stopped using these expressions.

When I learnt French in the 1980s, we were taught to close letters with "je vous prie d'accepter l'expression de mes sentiments les plus distingués."

With the dozens of variations depending on context, position of the writer and recipients, if you know them personally, etc.

Canadian comedian François Pérusse has a good sketch about those, called Veuillez agréer.

I still use them on formal written and printed letters, mostly with contractual stuff, government services. Maybe once or twice a year.

I used to do

    Hi <name>,

    <email text>

    Regards,
    <my name>

Recently I've been influenced a bit by reading https://twitter.com/TechEmails and I'm trying to be even less formal and go without the "Hi" and "Regards".

Long corporate signatures with logos and stuff are an abomination.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220413164440/https://www.econo...

Been using:

  Cheers,
  
  -Name

for years and clients love it. Before it was more prevalent one office of a dozen or so admin-types used to call me the "Cheers guy".

I generally just use "Kind regards" regardless of context because it's in my muscle memory and therefore the quickest and requires the least thought. Honestly I don't think anyone really cares what form of sign-off is used, it just seems kind of strange if you don't use one at all.

My older colleagues use:

Rgds, [Name]

For years I’ve used: Thanks, [Name]

Regardless of whether there’s a request or not, it’s simple, notionally pleasant, and no one actually cares. I’ve though of signing off with just a name but I feel like this sticks out more than a sign-off should. I don’t think I could get away with Rgds, it’s a little too brief and I’m really not in that much it a rush

Also I have excluded a line-ending full-stop (e.g. the previous paragraph) in most less-formal correspondence for a long time, I am not sure when I started but I eventually came to like it. That being said, it’s all email - as long as people know it’s me if I know them, or I come off as open to people to don’t, I’m not fussed.

I still sign off with two-dashes-space [Return] Name. Depending on your mailer, it should result in a signoff that doesn't get included if you hit Reply. "Name" might include the full multiline sig, but I've always deplored multiline sigs.

Depending on who I'm writing to, I might precede the sig (or the name) with some expression of goodwill, such as "Love" for my kids, or something more formal like "Best regards" for others.

The best signoff for a two-line email, of course, is an "Unsubscribe" link and 6 paragraphs of unenforceable and nonsensical legalese.

> Depending on your mailer, it should result in a signoff that doesn't get included if you hit Reply.

Not in Apple Mail or Roundcube webmail from what I see. :-( Is this a standard?

It's an informal standard going back a long way. See for example RFC 3676, 4.3. Usenet Signature Convention

   There is a long-standing convention in Usenet news which also
   commonly appears in Internet mail of using "-- " as the separator
   line between the body and the signature of a message.  When
   generating a Format=Flowed message containing a Usenet-style
   separator before the signature, the separator line is sent as-is.
   This is a special case; an (optionally quoted or quoted and stuffed)
   line consisting of DASH DASH SP is neither fixed nor flowed.

   Generating agents MUST NOT end a paragraph with such a signature
   line.

   A receiving agent needs to test for a signature line both before the
   test for a quoted line (see Section 4.5) and also after logically
   counting and deleting quote marks and stuffing (see Section 4.4) from
   a quoted line.

* https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt

This is all I’ve ever done. Every other convention has always seemed at best quite fake, and at worst like you’re someone’s grandad sending email for the first time.

I have recently received business email from France, that signed off with "Veuillez agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de mes salutations les plus respectueux" (Please be so good as to accept, Sir, the expression of my most respectful greetings).

That's a pretty traditional French signoff, but I gather it's finally passing out of fashion now. About time.

"A single line consisting of exactly two hyphens, followed by a space, followed by the end of line".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block#Standard_delim...

There are a lot of posts here about using "Cheers" as a sign-off, presumably because it's still early in the US so more of the readers are from Oz or the UK. I think it's fine when one of y'all use "cheers", but when an American uses it, it sounds pretentious. It's one of the British informalities I like, but would never use myself. And have you ever heard someone say "cheers mate" in an American accent? That's cringeworthy.

I have been using "greetings" or "greetz" consistently for more than 10 years. Until i read rather recently that greetings are never for ending an encounter or message, but rather for starting one... Nobody ever pointed out my mistake so i guess nobody really cares. I default to "regards" now. Ps I hate these -- sometimes multilingual -- automatic signatures that embed the sign off, sometimes abbreviated. Imo if it is automated, it cannot be sincere.

Regards,

Nuancebydefault

If I ask someone to do something I always sign off with "thanks". It's odd, but "thank you" just doesn't work, even though I prefer it.

Mh, try to set a kind of protocol/netiquette is normal, reasonable, being a bit kind and polite in general similarly is a good and normal thing, but more than that is just erotic practice of some managers. The same in the real world send a two rows email with 45 lines of signature telling about thin air on privacy do-not-print-me etc

I haven't signed off any email or letter in years. Your words can stand on their own without a sign off!

Hello, $FIRST_NAME_OR_OTHER_ALIAS!

$POST_CONTENT

Regards, $MY_FULL_NAME

Disable your email client's default signature from advertising itself.

What about opening an email? Hi, Hello, Hey, Dear, …?

At work and with people I know, I use:

Hi Abc,

Else:

Hello Mr. Abc,

I've been using "Thanks" or "Thank you" for a few years. "Regards" or "Cheers" is fine, but so common and banal now.

Signing of with "Thanks" isn't banal? Hmm.

I sign of with Regards. Maybe it's banal, but I don't think people care.

As another commenter said, if the email contains anything like a request I use "Thanks" and I mean it. Perhaps some of this depends on the culture in your organization. In mine some people I've worked with for ten years spell my—very simple—name incorrectly and then write "Regards" so I have never taken that seriously.

STOP. END BODY. STOP. END TRANSMISSION. \0

Usually

Thanks / Name

sometimes

Thanks / Initial

for the initiated

SVBEEV / latinized name

Cheers,

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