Ask HN: Who has given up looking for work? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Who has given up looking for work?

16 pointspmoriarty23 comments

This is the best jobs market, especially for tech workers, in our lifetimes -- among the best in history. I'm not sure why anyone would give up looking for work unless they just prefer to retire.

I clicked into this thread hoping OP expounded on their struggles because I also find the current job market to be white-hot. Even I, a veritable moron, was able to get a job - one that was far better than what I deserved.

It's a market, so value is simply set by supply and demand - not necessarily rationality. So you got exactly what you deserved :)

Take a look at the first few pages of top posts of all time on r/jobs[1].

They are filled with threads bemoaning how awful work is these days and how hard it is to find a job.

Some sample thread titles:

"A 9-5 job that pays a living is now a luxury"[2]

"America is not lacking in skilled employees, America is lacking in companies willing to hire and train people in entry level roles"[3]

"3 to 5 years is NOT entry level"[4]

"Employers this is why you aren't getting any employees."[5]

"Job Hunting again, and it sucks. Please have all Certifications, a degree in at least 3 fields, and 20 years for this internship"[6]

And many, many more threads along those lines.

Whether or not these complaints reflect the reality of the job marketplace as a whole, it's clear that a lot of people are super frustrated and dejected, and it's not surprising to me in the least that some (many?) would give up altogether.

Some people who work in tech and rolling in dough are completely out of touch with how tough it is for millions of people outside of tech and some other very in-demand fields.

That's not to mention depression and burnout, which even those in in-demand fields are not immune to.

[1] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/top/ (make sure to select of "all time")

[2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/obq9ew/a_95_job_that_...

[3] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/jo6lc7/america_is_not...

[4] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pkfho0/3_to_5_years_i...

[5] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pde5ow/employers_this...

[6] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/m846a0/job_hunting_ag...

Reddit isn't representative of anything. People with good jobs aren't on reddit bemoaning their joblessness. It's a bad sample.

Show actual data to back up your hypothesis.

There are a lot of jobs, and a lot of jobs have been added recently for sure. That doesn't make them good jobs. Where's your data for that?

Only for tech workers. ONLY for tech workers. Yes, I was able to secure a job with >$300k TC with 4 years of experience a few months ago, but friends of mine with essential jobs where they perform actual labor (the kind society would fall apart in a week without) are still making $10-15/hr. The minimum wage is STILL $7.25. The minimum cash wage for tipped jobs (rife with wage theft) is STILL $2.13 an hour. I'm serious. $2.13. Look it up.

Meanwhile a crumbling 2BR single family home is $800k and insulin is $300 a vial.

"friends of mine with essential jobs where they perform actual labor (the kind society would fall apart in a week without) are still making $10-15/hr"

Not only that, but a lot of these jobs are ones where these awfully-paid workers have to risk their lives (especially during the height of the COVID pandemic, before the vaccines, when being on the front lines meant risk of death).

If they don't risk their lives many of them risk their health and sanity to a much greater degree than people in much cushier jobs with much higher compensation.

They also face greater job insecurity, because they're seen as completely replaceable cogs, maltreated at will and fired when no longer useful.

Why aren't more people eager to get such shitty jobs?

An interesting question is why more people aren't eager to quit such shitty jobs. If you're going to get fired anyway, you may as well quit. The number of open jobs to compete for you is not low. That said, they aren't doing great at competing for you, so maybe that answers the question.

"An interesting question is why more people aren't eager to quit such shitty jobs. If you're going to get fired anyway, you may as well quit."

A few reasons:

First, they can't afford to quit. Many people in low-paid jobs are living paycheck to paycheck and have to feed their kids and pay their bills, so can't afford to quit to find another job (and are too busy to look while working).

Second, there might not be any better options in their area.

Third, inertia, fear of change, exhaustion, and depression, which make doing things that take risk and initiative difficult.

That's some good speculation, and mostly what I would suspect as well. But actual data would be a lot better.

It's a fantastic market for tech workers who already have experience. It's an abysmal market for just about everyone else.

I am a 24 year old in the United States. In 2020, I graduated with an Associate’s degree in Software & Web Development from a small technical community college. Since then, I have applied to hundreds of dev jobs and other tech related jobs. Out of the hundreds of applications I’ve put in, I’ve had a total of two interviews. My first interview was with a very small web development company with connections to some of the professors at the community college I attended. They offered me an unpaid internship which I wasn’t interested in because I am not willing to work for free. I got my second interview thanks entirely to nepotism; my mother sells software made by the company. I was applying for a software engineer position which I quickly realized I was woefully unprepared for and, if I’m being completely honest, had no business applying for in the first place. After failing to answer a couple LeetCode questions on obscure topics I had never seen before, I withdrew my application in embarrassment and haven’t applied to a job since. My self esteem is non-existent and I feel like I’ve wasted most of my life at this point striving to be someone I’m not meant to be. I want to solve interesting problems and do great things and have a place in this world but it feels like there’s just no space for someone like me. What’s wrong with me?

I have worked in software dev since I did a data processing job for my uncle when I was 16.

I have had all sorts of misadventures such as partnering with a salesperson who couldn't sell, working at a place where I had a dark triad supervisor (who claimed to have supervised both Linus Torvalds and Dave Cutler at some point), running up $80k of debt on my home equity loan (now paid) and really pissing off my wife, etc.

I also got a PhD in theoretical physics and people would say "that's great, it proves you are smart" but it can be a scarlet letter if people think you are overqualified or aren't going to take the job seriously.

I've had some times when I was really depressed and in despair about getting my next job. I've also had time when recruiters were fighting each other to talk to me. When I was about 40 I told somebody at the gym that I might as well be retired, but I've also had great pleasure working for big companies, small companies, startups and established companies not to mention myself.

There was a time when I was despair about job interviews, I came across this guy

https://job-interview-answers.com/job-interview-tips/about-b...

I can recommend what he is selling because it turned around my attitude.

Learn Salesforce

Leetcode interviews require their own preparation. Your degree would not have prepared you for it and I dare say most computer science majors wouldn’t be able to go into one without prior preparation and pass.

Don’t let that discourage you. Instead, you should just do what everyone else does and practice those problems.

——————-

It sounds like you didn’t do Computer Science. This is typically the baseline requirement for most software engineering positions.

However, many people do get in without CS degrees.

What did your degree cover? Is it similar to what’s covered in the typical coding boot camp? I have assume it’s much more than that, since you went to community college for it.

My point is, if lots of people can get in with these types of programs, you should be able to too.

You claim nepotism, but a lot of people get in via referrals so don’t feel bad about that.

I have worked with so many "software engineers" who legitimately cannot code at all. You would be surprised. They show up in the morning, accomplish nothing, and leave. This goes on for months or years. It is both hilarious and sad. The point here is to please realize that you are likely already way above many professional "software engineers". If they can do it, you absolutely can!

My advice is pick some minimal project such as a "TODO list", create it in java/springboot (only because this is quite popular, you can do more interesting/fun things later). Polish your resume, practice leetcode. Then upload your resume to a website like dice.com. You may have to move to find work, but I am confident that you can. Do not be picky, just take a job then evaluate where you're at one year later. This is a passing phase, years from now, you will look back at this as a period of both struggle and personal growth.

Well, here's your problem. You didn't graduate from MIT or Stanford, and you're obviously not grinding leetcode, studying for and taking certification exams, boning up on your brain teasers, or doing mock interviews so you know what to expect, nor are you willing to work for free this early in your career. All of this means you're not really serious about working in the field. Unless you can prove your intelligence and passion, you present a risk to employers. Bad hires are costly.

I'm being heavily sarcastic, but that's just how the game is played now. You have to commit to the full-time job of getting a job, otherwise you will be gatekept out.

ADD

I got my first job from a family friend but was qualified for it. I think junior jobs are incredibly difficult to get, probably the hardest point of your career. About 5-10% of the people who did an associate degree with me work in the tech industry. And nearly all of those who do end up in basically a shitty call center job or doing maintenance work in some factory.

I think the odds of landing a tech job are seriously low. A degree from an elite university may double or triple your odds, but I still get rejections from people who say my resume was impressive. Most of the people who make it work incredibly hard and often don't realize how hard they work. HN is full of people who say tech jobs are easy, but also full of people who regret how hard they have to work to keep one.

I think it's fine to give up, but if you really want it, then maybe pick up Cracking The Coding Interview and play the game. It recommends about a year of preparation, which is actually less than doing a degree. Though in my exp it takes half a year to even land a job even if qualified.

Have you had someone look over your resume?

I serve as a hiring manager at a startup in nyc - we aren’t actively searching for recent grads, but I could chat and offer you a sanity check about your qualifications!

For what it’s worth, I got my first internship through a family friend :)

Failing to answer Leetcode questions doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. Many will be difficult without spending a lot of time practicing similar problems.

If they were "easy"-ish Leetcode questions, it might not be a bad idea to practice some basics.

Many interviewers are looking at your thought process and ability to transfer your ideas into, not just whether or not you solved the problem.

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