Ask HN: What happened to Apple's self service repair program? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: What happened to Apple's self service repair program?

92 pointsadtac51 comments

https://www.apple.com/ca/newsroom/2021/11/apple-announces-se...

This was announced in November 2021, but there hasn't been any development since. The cynic in me thinks this was just a PR move to quell EU right to repair regulations, but I really hope that's not the case.

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I assume they're still slowly adding repair frameworks into software, for instance. CoreRepairKit was added into macOS, and we're starting to see more things (like the 'request parts' function for Apple Watches in the Apple Support app).

Logistics likely takes time for all of this as well as the legal side of things. It's not as simple as "poof, self repair!" as much as Samsung and Google are making it seem with iFixit.

[1] https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1484155025266180097

Question, what’s CoreRepairKit? Googling only found me a symbols list on GitHub.

I assume it's some form of functionality that allows serial number keyed equipment to be changed. You can't swap a large number of components on iPhones without locking yourself out.

iFixit feels a bit off to me

they promote right to repair, but are doing some "not ideal" things, like reselling stuff from china at 2+ times the price without providing better quality

seems like they are just a business and have chosen a good niche that now became very popular

iFixit provides curation, support, and keeps stock to improve shipping times. This 2x price increase is a very typical markup from wholesale to retail.

Also iFixit offering parts should be reliable than buying random parts on AliExpress.

I have a Google Pixel 4 from which the back plate detached and broke

Decided to swap the battery as well

iFixit parts list

Google Pixel 4 Rear Panel Assembly - 75$

Google Pixel 4 Battery Fix Kit - 37$

total - 112$

I bought them from AliExpress, same quality (official parts I guess)

Rear Cover With Camera Glass Replacement For Google Pixel 4 - 23$

High Quality Replacement Battery GO2OI-B For Google Pixel 4 - 12$

total - 35$

seems like a serious rip off, which makes me not like them

Wow, business resells thing for 2-3x the price of Chinese direct-to-market almost bulk prices after paying shipping and customs and storage and employees and warranties and

do you know how a normal business works?

If you are paying 112$ instead of 35$ for the exact same product (except shipping times, but perhaps you could find them on ebay/amazon with fast shipping) and you do not feel taken advantage of, good for you.

To make it clear, it's not theoretical, I bought the parts for 35$ instead of 112$, and the are exactly the same as from iFixit or better.

I just dislike the aura of "iFixit is fighting for you, doing the right thing!" and then proceed to rip you off.

Also, on aliexpress things go trough a few middlemans (and aliexpress cut). They probably buy bulk from alibaba or another channel, and prices there are lower.

It's not a ripoff. The additional markup pays for all the other things that iFixit does for you, but for which you are not directly paying. Like those guides, and curating the tools that look exactly like the other tools but actually are much lower quality. And so on.

The fact that you can buy from the same suppliers and avoid that markup also means that you're now responsible for waiting the extra time to ship from China instead of iFixit, and you're responsible for making sure you really are getting the quality tools instead of the lookalike ripoff tools, etc....

If you value your time so little that doing this process makes you think that iFixit is a ripoff, well that tells me that you're looking at the wrong end of the telescope.

As long as there are people like you that value their time so much, I guess they could increase the price even more.

Just mention to people when talking about iFixit that they could by the same product for a few times less.

I don't have a problem if anyone uses them, just that usually resellers increase the price much less than them. I am sure they could reduce the price to half and still make a very good profit, but that is not in the interest of the business. A lot of people are hearing about iFixit now with the right to repair push and I assume they don't know that the products they are selling on their website have such inflated prices as compared to real price.

So, if you knew anything about the commercial market and the relationship between wholesalers and retailers, you would know that a 3x markup is actually about the smallest you typically see.

Those jewelers you see with those three balls hanging outside their door? That's a statement by the jeweler that they are "triple-key", which means that they intentionally limit themselves to 3x markup on most items (the expensive ones). It used to be that many jewelers had a much larger markup that they typically charged, and many still do.

So, if you want to spend your time dealing with a wholesaler that might or might not be the same supplier that iFixit uses, and you want to take your chances on whether you're getting dodgy equipment from some fly-by-night Chinese company that has copied the look of the quality tools you might otherwise get from a trusted retailer, then more power to you.

I'll stick with the trusted retailer, myself. I think iFixit is one of the few relatively honest companies left in the business, and I'd prefer to continue to support them with my business.

That's not true.

Luxury jewelers have a pretty high markup because of the brand. Do not mix reselling stuff from china and jewellery business. Usual jewelers keep prices depending on the price of material and the weight, not at 3x markup.

When buying from aliexpress/ebay you are buying a single piece, like from a retailer, same process as from ifixit. So by you logic if every retailer has 3X markup, but iFixit has price 3 times higher than the aliexpress retailer, it means that iFixit has at least 9X markup.

You also see reviews, and based on them you can decide who you trust. That is time consuming, and I would prefer to be a place where I can buy without having to worry, however also don't try to rip me off because they thought I would pay anything for cheap stuff imported from china.

Aliexpress is not a retailer. They are another outlet for the manufacturer -- not even the wholesaler. So, you're cutting out at least two layers of the traditional sales channel. It makes sense that their stuff would be much, much cheaper.

You cannot reasonably compare their prices with any other wholesaler or manufacturer.

But you do you.

That's wrong.

But don't worry, feel free to think what you want.

"That's wrong" and nothing to show why. Good argument there, lol.

Another commenter pointed out that 2x markup is reasonable, but I want to point out that, without iFixit, 99% of those parts would be useless to 99% of their customers.

I can't count how many gotchas I would have missed, or how much permanent damage I would have caused, if I didn't have their guides to point out hey, these screws are technically slightly different or hey, this cable may as well be made out of gossamer threads with how fragile it is.

Samsung has a lot of the logistics worked out through carrier repair programs and supplying third party repair houses for at least the last decade. That part is likely just like adding a new repair house customer (I assume iFixit is the middleman).

The Apple blogpost says "will be available early next year in the US and expand to additional countries throughout 2022.", as it's still early in the year it's probably a bit early to see it as a pure PR move.

https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/08/what-happened-to-apples-new-s...

Apple is probably waiting for the EU laws which would actually force them to do this. Until then this would be on the backburner

Probably launch later this year due to component shortages.

There are already hints that it's coming.

https://twitter.com/tme_michael/status/1482163926112559107

Before they get this program for the 'old and busted' way of owning technology they need to get their offering of the 'new and useful' way of owning technology up and running.(https://www.wired.com/story/apple-iphone-subscription-roundu...) This way they can farm the repair work out to their certified network and keep a handle on parts distribution to the 3rd party repair niches.

I am of the mind that self repair on a leased device will void agreements.

Everything As A Service is bad for society

Like Cooking As A Service aka restaurants?

We went wrong with Dormitory as a Service aka hotels.

They didn't say they want Nothing as a Service.

Some things are certainly great as a service, but it's bad for everything to go in that direction. I don't want an oxygen subscription.

> don't want an oxygen subscription

And that's fine! As long as you stay within the bounds of the free plan, you can have ad-supported oxygen! Terms & Conditions apply.

Remember, you can always switch to an oxygen supplier of your choice. Atmosphere corp thanks you for your continued appreciation of its atmospheric oxygen technology.

NB: Change fees apply. There may be a transition period of 1-3 business days before your new oxygen supplier begins service. Atmosphere Corp, subsidiaries, and related companies are not responsible for lack of oxygen capacity planning. Early termination fees apply.

“The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door. “I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.” ― Philip K. Dick, Ubik

If it was the only means to acquire food, yes absolutely that would be bad

of course you know that is not what I was talking about, the "you will own nothing and like it" crowd which I assume you are a part of given your response never wants to debate the actual problems with that position instead they take hyperbolic positions designed to deflect

If restaurants lobbied Congress to outlaw grocery stores, as Tim Cook is attempting to do at this very moment [1], then yes, it would be bad for society to allow them to succeed.

1: https://nypost.com/2022/04/13/apples-tim-cook-claims-anti-bi...

He's lobbying to outlaw grocery stores?

Sigh

Interestingly enough, in the olde days in the UK, you'd have boarding houses instead of apartments or condominiums, and they would often be a larger house where the householder would cook meals for the boarders.

This is probably substantially more efficient than each dwelling unit having its own kitchen, but unlikely to be desired by many these days.

College-life is often similar.

Yes if you weren't allowed to cook your own food because grocery stores also owned restaurants and closed all their grocery stores.

You've got the paradigm backwards. Cooking is a service. The closest thing to "as a service" would be your microwave requiring a subscription to cook some ramen in your own home. It's blatantly possible to be done without the subscription, but is added as a way to capture more revenue.

You need to view it in the lens of Modern Apple.

It doesn't hurt their bottom line, while able to please policy and regulators. The repair and components will be charged the same as BOM cost + margins. 99.9% of its billion iPhone user are highly unlikely to do self repairing.

So i dont think it is a PR move at all as in all words but no action. But they did make try to make lots of PR points out of it.

We all lost interest when the parts were more expensive than the entire phone on ebay.

It's right there, between AirPower and open source FaceTime protocol.

I must be dreaming, but could swear back in the day DHL would pick up your Apple product, fix it, and deliver it back to you.

A corporation's fiduciary duty is to its shareholders, not to its customers, just in case anyone's forgetten how investment capitalism works:

https://www.fudzilla.com/news/mobile/47872-cook-blames-users...

The current debate is thus over whether or not customer disgust with their declining ability to repair and upgrade their devices, and resultant lost sales, will do more harm to shareholder profits than lost sales due to people extending the lifetime of their devices by easily replacing batteries etc.

Yet, Costco still sells $1.50 hotdogs and drinks. Just because you have a duty to shareholders doesn't mean you have to run your business into the ground seeking quarter over quarter profits.

They don't do this as charity, though: they do this because customer disgust with being nickle and dimed over a hotdog, and thereby the resultant lost sales from their actual warehouse, will do more harm to shareholder profits than they would gain back on selling more expensive hot dogs (and maybe, just maybe, the hotdogs were always a loss leader anyway, to make the trip to Costco to buy hundreds of dollars of groceries more enjoyable to begin with).

They also change things, I notice they don't have the polish sausage anymore, the dog buns are different, etc.

Hotdogs and drinks are probably a loss leader for Costco. What Apple product would you suggest they sell below cost as an enticement to people to make other Apple purchases?

Most of the Apple subscription services (Music, iCloud, etc) would be a perfect choice there.

> A corporation's fiduciary duty is to its shareholders, not to its customers

This is a myth.

Firstly, corporations don't have fiduciary duties. Corporate officers, directors, and employees who act on behalf of the corporation, have fiduciary duties.

And those duties (in the US, as far as I understand it) amount to putting the company's interests above their own and making responsible, informed decisions. That doesn't mean always putting the interests of the shareholders before the customers. Its a judgement left to the people acting on behalf of the corporation - as long as they can show that their decisions are reasonable and not made out of self-interest.

Edit to add: This is also the basis for Corporate [Social | Environmental] Responsibility. People with fiduciary duties can reasonably decide that it is in the interest of a corporation for it to behave in certain ways within some wider context, even when that behaviour is not directly profit- or advantage-seeking.

This is obvious nonsense. If the ‘fiduciary duty’ were as strong as modern urban legend suggests, it would imply that all companies need to abandon their customary businesses and do the most profitable thing at all times.

Lemon prices down this week? Quick! Stop manufacturing spoons! Buy lemon farms!

That’s obviously not true in the short or the long terms.

"Fiduciary Duty Pile-On Thread" is always a good square to score in HN Bingo. Now I just need a guidelines reminder to complete this row...

Joseph Conrad in Heart of Darkness is always an option:

> "There had been a lot of such rot let loose in print and talk just about that time, and the excellent woman, living right in the rush of all that humbug, got carried off her feet. She talked about 'weaning those ignorant millions from their horrid ways', till, upon my word, she made me quite uncomfortable. I ventured to hint that the Company was run for profit."

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