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Also a musician, but also noise sensitive. To a degree I think the difference is that practice noise is completely different from playing a song from start to end. It's kind of like someone on the train talking on the phone -- you only hear their perspective and it really messes with your head since you naturally want to make sense of what's going on. Practice is scattered, filled with experimentation, and repetitious as hell. But it's difficult to fill those patterns in because practice playing is inherently unpredictable, ie frustrating.

Also, whatever instrument you're playing, I guarantee you the difference between everything else is that your neighbor can feel the music even with bulky headphones. There's a very unsettling feeling you get when you can't escape that, especially when you work from home. Maybe consider getting quiet equipmen -- you're a software developer, so you can surely afford it.

Like, I don't necessarily care that the toddlers stomping around above me are having fun, learning new things, etc etc.. they're still stomping around. Don't be that person.

I was a trumpet player for years in high school and college, practiced all the time at home and so did my brother so I experienced the situation from both sides. My opinion now is that it is irresponsible to make playing an instrument your hobby or profession (an instrument that can't avoid making noise that will bother others) unless you have access to an appropriate practice space. There are churches, music schools, music stores that will rent out space. Yes it sucks but that's the breaks. Either make sure you have access or don't pick up that trumpet/violin/tuba. Or switch it out for a keyboard (which can be electronic and practiced with earphones in) or guitar. This is what I did in my young adult years after I had put down the trumpet and was playing piano as a hobby while living on my own in an apartment.

Trumpet fortunately is one of the few instruments that you can reasonably practice with a practice mute. I have the Up Mute and it works amazingly with only a little backpressure, no complaints from any neighbors. Woodwinds are much more difficult to keep quiet though.

I once had a violin player as neighbor. It's bad enough when played well but violin mistakes are really painful to listen to.

I think having control has a lot to do with it; even the most beautiful music is "noise" if you can't control when it starts and stops. Unpredictability also plays a part: it suddenly starts at a random time and okay, so your neighbour is playing loud music (or practising their instrument); is this going to be for 5 minutes? 30 minutes? 2 hours? All night?

It's very much a personal thing. My brother once lived above a pub, when I came over the pub was playing music and I asked him if the noise didn't bother him. He asked "what noise?" On the other hand he hates living next to a road, whereas I don't actually mind that so much.

Or another thing: some time ago X11 and Wayland were being discussed on HN and someone asked me if I didn't mind the tearing on X11. I had to find a YouTube video to find out what exactly it looks like. Now that I know what I looks like: yeah, X11 does tear a lot, I guess. But it doesn't bother me in the slightest, whereas other people are very bothered by it. I also watch 720p (and lower!) videos/movies and think it's just fine.

I guess my point is that different people are bothered by different things. Person A saying "it's not that bad" and person B saying "it's driving me up the walls" can both be true and genuine statements.

As for your instrument practice ... I don't have an answer. Details matter: are you practising 30 minutes or 2 hours every day? What instrument do you play? How well insulated is the building? Etc. As for "is it not a racket worth its trouble?", no, I don't think so, not if it's severely affecting your daily quality of life (and again, how much it affects people really depends on the person).

> I think having control has a lot to do with it;

Yup. If the neighbor decides to play one of my favorite song ever, I'll still be pissed if I'm trying to watch a TV show.

My issue with my current neighbor (which is why i listed it) is mostly being woken up by the playing. I sleep late on weekends, I guess he wants to practice at 9am on a saturday for a few hours. Its the first thing I hear, he wakes me up, then im stuck listening as i try to get up and out of the apartment. Its also random playing in duration and time. Sometimes I think hes finally done then i get shocked by some loud scales or a random burst. Ideally I would just know how much he wants to practice and when. I'm sure we could figure out a schedule or something. I also offered to split the cost of some sound dampening thing for his saxaphone.

I like to think I'm reasonable and I understand that compromises need to be made for people in our unfortunately crappy apartments. I don't think its fair for me to try to shut down someones practicing. I get people do what they want to do. It sounds like to me likely your neighbor was unreasonable.

It's absolutely reasonable to not want to be harassed by noise in ones home. Even if that means a musician has to find another place to practice. Living stress free takes precedence over learning an instrument.

> how do you expect new musicians to come into existence, new music to be made? Is it not a racket worth its trouble?

For me, the absence of stress caused by someone playing unwanted music into my apartment would absolutely be worth no new music being made. Lack of stress is just more basic and immediate need.

Its torturous. I threatened to walk out..i can tolerate the alto but it was either me or the tenor sax. At one point, my teeth started hurting every time sax practice began. The pandemic had brought in seven musical instruments into our home and sometimes extended practice sessions. And voice lessons for the last two months. I wear headphones all the time now..but the downside is that I can't hear myself.

Here is what we did..i am learning an instrument too..so we sat down one day and figured out set timetables for practice. there is a way to soundproof a room..with foam panels. We got an electric sax which is brilliant because it can be practiced with headphones and has three instrument choices for clarinet, flute and sax. The controller can also be used with headphones.

Rent studio space with other friends or a friend's shed. Digital instruments are your friend. It is the future anyways. We have also vetoed drums as a family decision and that's mostly because we have pets. Tabla is ok and a lot of times i only need the metronome. I also use an app called iTabla for my sitar practice and I can control the volume.

The best solution is to find a friend who has space and tolerant neighbours.

Oh!! And curtains..there are scurtains that absorb sound. I don't know if its effective, but I found them at Costco and replaced all the nice curtains with ugly heavy sound absorbing curtains. Because. Music.

One thing I really liked about university was catching faint snippets of music being played as I walked around. But maybe this is due to not being bothered by people practicing scales in dedicated insulated basement music practice rooms, so I would only infrequently hear ~full pieces being practised.

I loved walking by musical school every now and then when they had windows open. Sorta added to summery feeling. But I hated every minute of my upstairs neighbour having their go at piano.

As someone who grew up playing piano, I'm sad that it's incompatible with urban living. I know some cultures are more likely to tolerate it than others, but overall I see it as on the way out.

There are electric pianos that are really-really good with feedback and feel and whatnot you piano players value, just plug in the headphones and practice away. Of all the compromises musicians have to make in apartment buildings this is one of the best and easiest.

Those still produce noise when you press the keys. Source: a friend can't practice after 8 because it bothers his downstairs neighbours.

Yeah the acoustics of just hitting a key on a good mechanical electrical keyboard is very surprisingly loud and propagates downwards through floors quite well. I used one for years but one still has to be considerate. It's indeed not the worst of compromises, but for me I don't see it as being enough to sustain a (classical) piano playing culture - it's life-support at best without the acoustic element.

Whoa. That building must be paper thin then. I know they produce sound (we had one), but that's still worlds apart from having someone practice a piece way over their heads days on end.

No, it's a german building, so brick walls, etc.

The irony is better materials cut out more higher frequencies, so without bass baffling, that's all that comes through. It ends up being more annoying. See also: TVs at reasonable volumes annoying people in the next room because it's all fwoom boom grrrscreeecrshhhhh with no context to piece together what's actually happening, and all down in frequencies that are hard to tune out.

Yeah, that building must be absolutely terrible. I have a shared wall with a neighbor who has a baby grand piano and can only barely hear it from right next to the wall.

> it's incompatible with urban living

No, it's incompatible with houses with poor sound insulation.

You need a LOT of concrete, dry wall, green glue and mass loaded vinyl to block out a standard piano...

The problem is that our hears are hard to shut. Earplugs don't block vibrations, and we need our ears for other things. If you're a parent you need to keep track of your kids, for one. If someone is trying to watch a 1 hour TV show, all of a sudden there's a large window of the day where they might get interrupted and unable to do it. If they work night, they'll be a wreck because they can no longer sleep.

There's no difference between a lawnmower and a piano in that case. The later might even be worse because it's not constant "white" noise (gray noise maybe?).

I lived next door to a piano player, and even though the walls were well insulated and I only heard him play lightly, it drove me mad. Music meant to attract attention. Even with a white noise machine it was incredibly hard to ignore.

Most instruments have electronic versions that you can practice with headphones. Pianos, violin, drums, guitars. For the others you can install an insulated booth, or rent a studio. Some hobbies aren't fit to be done in an apartment building, too. I'd love to play DDR in my apartment, but the downstairs neighbor will kill me. So I don't. Choose your instrument wisely (I used to be into drumming. I just had an electronic one, it was close enough to practice. Not as cool, but hey, compromises have to be made).

I'm a musician too, and yes, it is absolutely awful to hear someone practicing next door. I'm fortunate to play mostly electric instruments so I always practice with headphones because I understand how painful it is for others.

> I get that listening to me repetitously work out a song or musical phrase for an hour might not be pleasant... but is it really as bad as noise from motorcycles, lawnmowers, and car alarms?

At equal volume, it's actually worse. Music is harder to tune out than mechanical noise.

> For those who enjoy hearing their own music but still feel this way: how do you expect new musicians to come into existence, new music to be made? Is it not a racket worth its trouble? Is there any solace in knowing that the person making such noise is doing so with the specific goal of creating enjoyable noise in the future?

No.

I would suggest sound proofing your studio. I love music but not the sound of music practice through the walls

This is such a solved problem - I grew up in an urban area that was mostly apartments, so nobody's house was suitable for music practice. Everyone I know who played music rented nonresidental space to practice, usually a wearhouse space.