Unfortunately most of them are free for only 7 days or 10 days and followed with a steep cost. I'm okay paying if there are any real benefits but the reviews are really mixed on the play store.
So just wondering what you guys think? Has any such app has had real life benefits? What do you think?
While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless. What I like about Waking Up is the conversations with experienced meditators where they talk about the practice itself. These serve as a guide for my own practice. There's a whole section that consists of conversations on the theory behind meditation. As an HN type I eat these up.
I also don't think you can get the full benefit of a meditation practice without considering the nature of mind and consciousness. The app includes several discussions on this topic as well and it helped to inform my practice substantially.
Isn’t that… the point of meditation?
Meditation isn't about closing your eyes and doing nothing. It takes effort, at least until you are proficient.
It's exactly why I never managed to make a habit out of it.
> Isn’t that… the point of meditation?
Absolutely not! The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). Meditation is a complete mental training program. Monks did not just sit there on a cushion; they worked with teachers, reflected on ideas, and gained insights.
There is a mistaken view that meditation is just sitting there, but meditation is an active practice that includes eating, walking, cleaning, etc.
Being divorced from tradition is what makes it aimless and pointless.
I am not personally against secularization, but if we are going to extract ideas from these traditions, we should honor them and make them work effectively in our modern lives.
Again, isn’t aimlessness the point of Buddhism? Taming and mastering the ‘I’ and it’s worldly attachments like aiming for things?
It is this arbitrary separation of sitting meditation from other practices such as walking and work that is exactly the problem with the modern appropriation of meditation.
FYI:
Meditation originated in Hinduism where the original purpose was connection with God (as part of Yoga, the physical yoga is more recent). The earliest records of meditation can be found in Upanishads. Originally, meditation was highly directed.
Buddhism removed the God aspect. And a few thousand years later, the West has secularized it even more.
One part of this secularization has been to ignore the origins of meditation.
That is why I bracketed it: in the Buddhist context. The Buddha came out of the Vedic tradition (ancient Hinduism) so I agree that meditation practice is sourced from there. I cannot speak to what other Gurus were doing at that era.
Believe it or not there are deities (devas) in Buddhist Cosmology. The deity Brahma appears in much of early Buddhist scripture. Gods were not eliminated, but reduced in terms of importance.
In the West the “sit and do nothing practice” was extracted from the Shikantaza practice of the Zen tradition.
The problem is Zen includes all practice as part of meditative practice. There is no separation. This is not exclusive to Zen either. It is how Buddhism has been practiced in monasteries for over two thousand years.
It so happens that there's something useful in the roots of meditation's legacy that can be extracted from the religious—as many of us would consider it—chaff.
Like taking ayahuasca without a shaman to confront problems in your life. Turns out you don't need a shaman's spiritual rituals to benefit from the DMT experience.
I'll admit that until I tried it, I thought meditating was either just sitting there trying there trying to think no thoughts or it had some sort of religious connection that just wasn't for me. After using it for months, I realized it's a way to be present, acknowledge that thoughts are things that merely arise, and most of all, things that you can discard instead of letting them impact you.
I started trying it when he said that he'll do it for 30 seconds just standing in line at Starbucks if he feels some sort of anxiety, or before he goes on stage. That kind of thing felt practical to me, so I gave it a go. I've used the app on and off for over a year, often starting from the first guided session from scratch and working back through them when I lose the habit.
I don't do the guided sessions anymore, mostly listen to the interviews in the app that you point out. But I meditate in the morning almost every day now, and right after, I try to think of the person I want to be, and then I start my day. I got that tip from Eben Pagan (of David DeAngelo dating advice fame) after realizing I usually just wake up and am the person that I feel like, like sometimes I'd wake up and feel low confidence, and I would kinda be a low confidence person all day. Meanwhile, all I had to do was simply decide to take another path.
I dismissed all of this kind of stuff as BS for most of my life. I was 30 when I finally tried Waking Up and I finally see that there's something practical behind these things.
To answer OP’s question: the benefits I’ve found are to start to recognize the constant internal (mostly critical) monologue as just another appearance in consciousness in the same way sight and sound are. When I have a really good meditation session this monologue just kind of dissolves and I’m left feeling very peaceful.
Would love to hear from any other experienced meditators on what they found their next steps to be at this stage.
Therapy doesn't "solve" anything by itself, you must see it as a tool to help you put your mind in a better position so that you can solve your problems. Lots of people see these as magical apps that will somehow magically make them better with no effort from their side and then proceed to get disappointed when this obviously doesn't happen.
So to answer your question:
- Will these apps provide "scientific benefits" (whatever that is supposed to be)? No.
- Will these apps assist your own effort of improving mental health? Yes, as long as you're committed to it and keep going.
Reminds me of the "Why are you trying to do this?" reply that is almost automatic on Stackoverflow, lol
You have to eat the food. You have to use the gym.
It's a bit like arguing about the best gym to join. People waste months answering that question. The answer is "whichever one you will actually use".
One part of mediation is resisting the temptation to try and solve anything. You improve being able to notice each thought, acknowledge in a non-judgemental way and then allow it to continue moving through the station. The next thought will be arriving shortly. Mind the gap please.
Where I would get same benefits from 45-60 min cardio where I focus on the training and rhythm of music.
I definitely also felt "meditation" effects from reading books - but of course with intense focus on the book not thinking about anything else and not having tv running in background and people trying to talk to me.
In the end I do believe I get the same benefits when I focus on something intensely so basically any hobby.
Watching series on streaming services is for me not that immersive and too much stimuli so it does not work that.
“Meditation is a practice in which an individual uses a technique – such as mindfulness, or focusing the mind on a particular object, thought, or activity – to train attention and awareness, and achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm and stable state.”
It explicitly does not say that.
Reread your quote, slowly.
> such as mindfulness, *or* focusing the mind on a particular object,
and
> to train *attention and awareness*, and achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm and stable state.”
You will note the intro distinctly does not say this applies to all meditation, and that awareness is one of 7 different goals mentioned.
It's a shame you didn't continue to read, particularly the section on definition:
> Meditation has proven difficult to define as it covers a wide range of dissimilar practices in different traditions. In popular usage, the word "meditation" and the phrase "meditative practice" are often used imprecisely to designate practices found across many cultures.[19][20] These can include almost anything that is claimed to train the attention of mind or to teach calm or compassion.[21] There remains no definition of necessary and sufficient criteria for meditation that has achieved universal or widespread acceptance within the modern scientific community.
Even the word "meditation" comes from a phrase that can mean either quiet reflection on a topic, such as reading, or a deep intense self focus (how we tend to use it).
Exercise absolutely can be a form of meditative practice and there are still monks who do this practice today!
Reading a text and meditating on it, especially in a religious context, is thousands of years old and goes back to the earliest books and book like things we have (eg clay tablets).
This idea that meditation is where you sit and listen to an app and have self awareness is a very modern interpretation. It's not wrong - if that is useful for you, then do it - but to pretend anything that isn't vibing in a darkened room isn't meditation is plain wrong.
> GP is just saying that cardio and reading is not really equivalent to mediation
Both you and GP are incorrect on the most basic of levels. If you insist on correcting others at the very least read the rather good wikipedia page on the topic.
The idea that being a practicioner of meditation somehow brings you to be a spaced out peace loving beatnik is a fiction created by Hollywood.
> If they are wrong, teach them — but not in that tone.
You can not add to a full glass.
I am almost 40 now and I do see it seems to be diminishing in terms of effectiveness. I've tried to vary the amount and intensity but that has had limited impact.
I find now I need to manage other factors: alcohol intake, my diet, socialization, sleep, news consumption are all big ones for me.
I think there is a reason people do simplify many aspects of their lives as they get older. The sharp tools of youth aren't quite the magic they used to be.
Apps like Headspace, or just meditation generally, is something I have tried and I can see the benefit. I try to "clear my head" twice a day. Usually that's a 20 minute nap, and I've been trying to find another option and meditation seems like a good one.
sleep right > eat right > exercise right
If you do not have the sleep and eat part down (including alcohol), then proceeding to exercise will not have all the desired effects. Not to say that meditation does not help, if it works for people then it works for people.
I no longer use the app, but I’ve maintained a practice since. The app was useful as training wheels / structure. I was motivated to learn about meditation and it helped me.
I think any number of free resources could have worked, but paying and having structure was a motivator to continue.
I love the headspace story and the founder Andy Puddicombe. His mission is a real one of literally "spreading awareness" to everyone.
I've had a subscription to headspace for over 3 years now(corporate discount) and used it tons when I first started to learn about meditation. However 3 years wiser, I realize that I don't need a guide and do it all myself. I forgot I was subscribed until I saw this!
Much like exercise if you don't do it everyday, you get bored of it quickly. I really enjoyed the NBA series on headspace that I would use to kick-ass at work for awhile before I finished it and nothing else seemed interesting.
I also used their sleepcasts for awhile when battling insomnia. I enjoyed them but then found myself able to fall asleep naturally because I changed my habits to work out more and would be physical tired by the end of the night.
All in all, I think headspace can truly change your life. It just depends on how you decide to go about it. Meditation, awareness, mindfulness, and many of the skills it teaches are some of the most important skills to be getting accustomed to throughout one's life. I don't think I'll ever stop meditating or practicing in my life, but I am at the point where I no longer need these apps after 3 years.
You’re right about his story. His book is great, simply for the first quarter where he tells how he got where he is.
That said, the book is simply presented and somewhat repetitive, so the material doesn’t exactly stand up to repeated listens much. But it’s still fun :)
The Headspace Guide to Mindfulness & Meditation audiobook by Andy Puddicombe https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/andy-puddicombe/the-headsp... (can be found on Audible, Kobo, Audiobooks.com etc.)
Has a few guided meditations at the end of the audiobook, though you might also get some value from the various ones posted for free by Headspace on their social media: https://youtube.com/c/headspace
Fwiw, the benefit I've found is just in a more general mindfulness, and meditation can be part of that. Notice yourself tensing or clenching your jaw, and make a conscious effort to reduce that. Pay attention when something feels good, or hurts to think about. It has given me some modicum of clarity and engagement I didn't before.
Are you willing to make mindfulness in to a lifestyle? If you are, it’ll be worth the money, just like a gym membership.
I personally found that mindfulness practice helped me recognize anxiety, stress and illogical thoughts, take a moment to realign with a more objective reality and therefore improve my personal life (i.e. realizing my anxious thought was unsupported by any objective evidence and alter my behavior to be more logical.)
The common recommendation, which I also now believe is correct, is that meditation will only work if you do it as close to daily as possible and the sessions must last pretty long, like 40-60 minutes. I found that when I managed this level of practice, I was actually developing the skills and getting somewhere with meditation. Doing 10 minutes guided meditation every once in a while when you feel stressed won't bring much. It's like trying to get fit, it won't happen if you just do a few pushups once in a while, you need a pretty strict routine.
So, like most good things in life, you really have to work for it. And that's not something that's easy to sell in app form.
For a lot of people, these apps are an excuse to go and poster themselves as "spiritually aligned", "woke" and all kinds of other nonsense. And yet they fail to sit down with themselves, completely unplugged, and find that moment of peace that will come once the mind slows down.
Those scientific benefits can be achieved without apps. They just throw that stuff in your face to make you pay them money for a service that doesn't need paying for. Seriously.
People also come to meditation for different reasons. Some want to chill out, others want to be more present in every day life.
I assume you’re well practiced so you’ll know that ultimately apps aren’t what you need for “real” meditation. I think they’re a good starting point for many though.
I use it not only for guided meditations (which really help my anxiety) but also and almost more importantly, I use it for sleep. The wind down visualization is a nightly ritual for me, and sleep casts are great for when you want to let your mind wander off to rest.
I am in no way affiliated with headspace, ymmv, but I’ve had great success with it and happily pay yearly.
Way of Life (habit tracker). Since using it I’ve been much more consistent with important habits like working out, flossing, gratitude.
5 minute journal - I use this primarily as a gratitude journal. We train our brains to look for errors (debugging software, sending out VC rejection letters, lawyers looking for mistakes etc) and this forces you to search for and find good things. It’s helped tremendously in my marriage.
Waking Up - meditation app already discussed in this thread.
Easy enough to find free replacements for the first two if needed. Waking Up is great for learning - the content Sam provides is like nothing else I’ve found.
Additionally there are physical meditation bells which make wonderful, rich sounds. My wife and I often use one when we meditate together; she rings it at the beginning of a session and I ring it at the end after my watch timer goes off.
It's one of the reasons why I'm serious considering a dumb phone - save money and less distraction/uselessness. I don't really see too much being lost by stepping down. People already call me "the human GPS" because my sense of direction usually doesn't require using GPS devices. I don't "do" social media. Most of what I do professionally does not require a smart phone in any way, shape or form.
[0]: There are books you can use as guides instead, or local meditation centers, or to start: every morning sit for 10 minutes with your back straight, eyes closed, and focus on the physical sensations of breathing. You’ll get distracted; when you notice, just begin focusing on the breath again.
The first few days felt silly. I didn't feel an improvement, understand what the point of meditation was, and didn't believe I was doing it correctly. Gradually over time, I began to feel more relaxed throughout the day. Situations that would normally cause my anxiety to rise did not affect me. My focus improved drastically and I was able to concentrate for longer. I felt exponentially more comfortable in social situations. In one specific instance at the height of my practice, I had two different friends comment positively on a noticeable difference in my “energy”.
Towards the end of my 60 days, I increased the time I was sitting down since I experienced a marginal improvement. The unexpected consequence was that I no longer cared about most things. I won’t say I was enlightened by any means, but I no longer needed external stimulus or material things to be happy. I felt indifferent towards most critical components of my life. Why did I need a job? Why do I need money? To buy material objects I don’t need? This pattern of though cascaded across all other aspects of my life. At this point in time, I legitimately believe I could be homeless and happy.
This transcendence scared me, and I cut down to a couple days a week. As it turns out, even balance needs balance.
I say “learning” but the book also describes that there’s no rush to get anywhere in meditation/mindfulness.
> "Cron is one of Linux’s most useful tools and a developer favorite because it allows you to run automated commands at specific periods, dates, and intervals using both general-purpose and task-specific scripts. Given that description, you can imagine how system admins use it to automate backup tasks, directory cleaning, notifications, etc."
For example, one could get a cheap Raspberry Pi, set it up as a server on your local network, and use cron to have it send your phone daily email alerts about taking care of yourself on a particular schedule. Hmmm FOSS project?
[Edit re OP question: I wouldn't use pre-packaged apps for this because of the motivation issue. If I build something myself I'm far more likely to use it, because I want some kind of payoff for that original input of effort.]
I did this on my Mac for a while using cron and OSAScript to show a desktop notification.
https://www.breckenridge.dev/2021/10/12/using-cron-and-mac-n...
I'm very thankful for it.
The app was invaluable to learn how to sit quietly and control my mind but after like ~2 / 3 months it stopped being useful as I was much less interested in the 'medititaion for running" "meditation for relationships" etc. I just wanted to learn the basics and not apply the meditation to a specific topic. For that it was great. As with anything though, YMMV
So Finch uses the concept of a virtual pet (with a twist) and, in taking care of the pet, you end up taking care of yourself. It's brilliant. (Also mostly free but with a paid upgrade).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.finch.finc...
I know people who have really benefited from mindful meditation as a means to manage stress though so I don't doubt it does help some people. Possibly better for the types of stress and anxiety that builds up over time from a mixture of sources than solely from one obvious cause like in my case.
It's been a nice positive in my life :)
Meditation is one of those things that you do not notice immediate benefits. It takes a couple of weeks.
Start with 5 mins a day and aim to build up to 10mins.
Has it transformed my life? Probably not.
Has it helped me stay calmer under high pressure situations? Absolutely.
The biggest change is you start to become self aware of how you are feeling.
"okay, I am feeling anxious and can feel my heartrate accelerating. That's okay, let's just focus on my breathing and stay calm"
Etc
The app that helped me was free. It was Google Family link. Using this app, I was able to disable chrome and youtube from my android phone. This did cut down on my procrastinating hours.
Absolutely love it - well worth the money for me.
And notifications (of which I don’t have many) get in the way. I could configure some Do Not Disturb mode, but so far, it’s been less trouble just to use something less technical.
apps won't replace a therapist
i'm saying this as a paying Headspace user :D
After that my experience regressed back to beneficial but not profound. By the end of it, I couldn't even meditate anymore.
Lots of things in life seem to follow this pattern for me. At least this one was somewhat beneficial for a longer time.