BND Intercepts Radio Traffic Discussing the Murder of Civilians
spiegel.de
spiegel.de
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/reader-center/russia-syri...
That is a video of Russians in Bucha just shooting at anything that moves on the street : https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-drone-footage-appears...
that's a pretty big correction.
Well only geographically. It's still Russian military radio traffic discussing murders of civilians, is it not? Just maybe not in Bucha.
Even if you wanted to quibble over the meaning of words, the article is very clear about it:
> radio traffic from Russian military personnel in the region north of Kyiv, where Bucha is located
This is not trolling. Maybe you shouldn't be so flippant about making accusations like that.
> In a past life I had contact with teams returning from Kossovo having handled mass graves there, identifying corpses, getting information to investigators, these ones then talking with families, piecing through what exactly happened. Some of the affected persons, still alive 30 years on, with only the memory of their raped 10 years old daughter, are at it and anyone associated with the deeds, even if the perpetrators have long ago been peeled, are still after associates, even if only just in propaganda associates.
I too, did "peace enforcement" in the Balkans as a uniformed member of the US military in a NATO unit.
Who were the allies of NATO in executing the peace enforcement? Russians. How quickly people forget this, in the "Rah Rah Rah EvilRussianz" media blitz.
However, you are comparing genocidal conflicts in the Balkans, with a war that is essentially a defensive move by the Russians to prevent encroachment into their sphere of influence & sphere of control.
Wars are brutal, horrible things.
NATO should not be in the business of fomenting revolutions, "Color Revolutions", Regional destabilization, or encroaching on regional powers turf where we have no clear national interest. And no, we hate Putin is not a National Interest. NATO has been supporting the Western Ukrainians in Kiev, and assisting the coup, in attacking the Eastern Ukrainians for a number of years now. We should not be in that business.
We would not tolerate Mexico or Canada becoming a Chinese military base, any more than we did missiles in Cuba [1]
[1] https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile...
You must not be counting the thousands of TOW, Stinger, Javelin, and Switchblade Drone/Missiles that NATO is sending to Ukraine.
TOW 2 are specifically designed to take out buildings in the Bunker Buster variants. Simultaneous release of multiple TOW2s could be used to defeat large industrial buildings, or skyscrapers.
Slovakia has sent an S300 to Ukraine, and those are pretty hefty sized missiles too.
Are you drawing the limit on short range tactical missiles, intermediate range tactical missiles, Cruise Missiles, ICBMs, or Nuclear ICBMs, since we have already established NATO is supplying a number of missile types to Eastern Ukraine?
You mentionned Cuba, so I mentionned Cuba, false equivalence yada yada...
Still, so far the Buk that fools used to down the Malaysia MH17 is the only actual case we're talking about: misguided killings inside the aforementioned "sphere of control", more like sphere of complete corrupt incompetence if you ask me.
All the rest you list is the result of the unprovoked aggression.
So far only Israeli airlines have installed flare decoy systems on commercial transport aircrafts, there are technical issues with downing one of those with what you list though. Let us both hope your theories do not have to get tested.
This is what western media would have you believe.
However, the Western Ukrainians have been attacking the Eastern Ukrainians for half a decade now, bombing civilians much of the time.
Similar to what happened with the Buk, is the new Kramatorsk situation.
Western Media reports it as Russians killing Ukrainians https://nypost.com/2022/04/10/liz-cheney-says-ukraine-train-...
Russian Media reports it as Western Ukrainians killing Eastern Ukrainians https://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/151053-kramatorsk_ra...
However, we know that Russians claim to be only using Iskandar missiles these days. Iskandars are more powerful, more accurate, and significantly longer range.
An Iskandar is distinguishable via the tail fins https://www.defencetalk.com/military/photos/iskander.46333/f...
Tochka-U missiles don't have tail fins in the same position, as they are more centrally located https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPz-Oy6WYAQ07Ko?format=jpg&name=...
Russians fired a Tochka-U at an exercise in '22, and there is alleged film of a Russian unit having a Tochka-U. Whereas, the Tochka-U is the only Ukrainian missile of the type, as they do not have access to Iskandars
What landed at the Kramatorsk train station was clearly a Tochka-U.
So, I guess it is in the realm of possibility that it was either side.
No, it isn't. It doesn't affect the core finding at all.
Western Ukrainian tactics appear to be adopting the usual terrorist technique of utilizing schools, churches, and hospitals. They are also preventing non-combatant foreigners from leaving Ukraine as an attempted pressure tactic to push governments to support them, forcing both Indians and Africans to stay in a warzone [4]
Given that the Moscow Regime (Russians) and their allies in the DPR [5] and LPR [6] (Eastern Ukrainians) have overwhelming firepower at this point, heavy artillery, and are regularly lobbing tactical missiles, cruise missiles, and airstrikes onto the AFU, they have overwhelming advantage already.
I should also mention that the AFU has been attacking the civilian populations in the territory of the LPR & DPR for more than 5 years now, but this news gets little exposure in Western Media [7] Because, we don't want to admit we are in bed with Ukrainian Nazis like Right Sektor and The Azov Battalion [8]
Remember, Ukrainian Democracy was overthrown in a violent coup (color revolution) with our support; it was the US State Department that declared who would seize control of Ukraine post-coup [9]
[1] https://rumble.com/vzxxb3-ukrainian-soldiers-shoot-russian-p...
[2] https://rumble.com/v104l5t-ukrainians-kill-captured-russian-...
[3] https://rumble.com/vyyefx-ukrainian-azov-nazi-ruslan-mironok...
[4] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/world/europe/ukraine-refu...
[5] https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_...
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_People%27s_Republic
[7] https://rumble.com/vxf4m0-media-isnt-interested-in-zelenskyy...
[8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYyy0aeWrnw
[9] https://rumble.com/vwvai7-2014-leaked-audio-from-victoria-nu...
Who is we ?
Anyways, remember: “You go to war with the Army you have -- not the Army you might wish you have”
This war started with the Russian invasion and stops the moment they retreat from Ukrainian territory
No.
This war simmered, starting with 50 years of broken promises about the Eastern border of NATO.
The opening salvo where it went hot was the coup in Kiev that deposed an elected leader.
> and stops the moment they retreat from Ukrainian territory
Nope.
The Eastern Ukrainians, aka, The LPR and DPR, have been shelled by the Western Ukrainians for the last 6 years or so. They don't want to be controlled by Kiev anymore. Hence their full names.
Donetsk People's Republic. Lugansk People's Republic.
Am guessing they'd rather be with Russia, than the "countrymen" that have been shooting them, and bombing them.
https://southfront.org/ukrainian-army-continues-massive-shel...
I'm pretty sure most of them would prefer to be in Ukraine now. The Russians have been pressing men 18-64 into military service with shitty equipment, to serve as cannon fodder. The Russian's have done more to solidify Ukrainian national identity by invading their country than anything the Ukrainians could've done on their own.
The mythical promises (which, even if the stories about them were completely true, were neither made to Russia nor made in a form that any future government beyond the one they were made to had any reasonable basis to rely on nor made in a form that could be reasonably held against any future leadership beyond the actual individuals that made them) happened in 1989-1990. So, even ignoring that the only entity that could arguably rely on them was gone within two years and the only people they could be held against were out of power within three, it's not possible for there to have been 50 years of them. Also, Russia was actively seeking eastward expansion of NATO (specifically, to include Russia) starting before celebrations of its declaration of independence from and leading role in destroying the USSR had quieted down in 1991, and for nearly a decade afterward.
> The Eastern Ukrainians, aka, The LPR and DPR, have been shelled by the Western Ukrainians for the last 6 years or so
That's not accurate.
The Russia puppet pseudo-states, created through force of Russian sponsored Nazi mercenaries like Wagner and Nazi militias like Sparta (which individually is much larger than Azov that Russia likes to talk about so much, which was part of the response against their Russia-instigated aggression), have held, since 2014, a small fraction of their claimed territory in Eastern Ukraine and been shelling Eastern Ukrainians outside of the territory they hold and abusing those opposed to Russian aggression within it for the last six years. That's expanded, as well as the scale of abuse, with Russia’s open direct invasion recently.
Please provide some evidence that Wagner, the Russian military company similar to Blackwater, is a group of Nazis. As the documentary evidence for Right Sektor and the Azov Battalions being Nazi/Fascistic affiliated is already overwhelming, and far predates the recent invasion of Russian Forces, as documented by Vice News, and several other western media sources.
Would like to see some evidence of the same about Sparta too, if such a thing exists.