IMO, serendipitous conversations are a key part of a healthy society. Few things have as strong of a humanizing effect.
This, unfortunately, is EXACTLY what high pressure religions/cults/MLMs use to their advantage.
I was a mormon missionary and one of the things we were taught to look out for is things to humanize ourselves. Literally "If you see toys in the yard, ask them about their kids. Are they washing a car? Ask if you can help. Was there a death in the family? Talk to them about mormon heaven." etc.
The key, here, was all about conversion. You find an opening and then try and wedge yourself in (with the ultimate goal of getting a new convert, because you are "saving" them).
Other cults are certainly worse (NEVER go to a "private" meeting!), but it's something to realize. Cults are successful because they try and use genuine humanizing effects to bring in new members.
Many people drive cars. Some people kill others with theirs, sometimes intentionally. We should not then assume every person driving a car is on the warpath.
So you’ve never been to Boston
I was in Boston a while back and I came to a crossroads. There was no stop sign, no light, nothing. I eventually just had to... go. I got to my hotel and I asked about it, and the concierge was like, "oh, its just like that". I asked how people are supposed to know to stop (or not to) and he replied, "you just know". It baffled me because _clearly_ you don't just know.. because I was there and I didn't know. What happens if two people just drive through the intersection at the same time.
I get it that crossroads exist like this in the open nowhere. But... in a city? It was mind-boggling to me. Plus... the street layout in Boston was done by throwing pounds spaghetti at a wall and then trying to match the pattern that stuck.
And a friend was stopped when driving on the wrong side of mass ave (a divided road with a barrier). The cop stopped us, give us both a stern talking to, and then let us go on our merry way.
* She is a physicist and her defense to me was “I was only driving in one direction”
You got there without incident didn't you?
Those sorts of intersections get treated like N-way rolling stops in practice. If there's someone who'll obviously be there first everyone adjusts speed so everyone can roll it without stopping. If multiple vehicles arrive at the same time negotiations ensue.
Still have to say though that this is less of an issue recently. Many fewer missing traffic signs than there used to be. I don't care for it :)
My comment was a response to ‘I asked how people are supposed to know to stop (or not to) and he replied, "you just know". It baffled me because _clearly_ you don't just know.. because I was there and I didn't know.’
When I got my license in New York I studied for the written test from a booklet that the DMV gave out. This exact situation was in there. It’s not complicated. But you’re right, there will be accidents, because, even though there are still driving tests, people drive around with “red means stop, green means go” as the only rule that’s stuck in their heads. At least in the US.
I don't know the traffic accidents stats, but overall the system really does rely on people knowing the rules as opposed to signalization, and it (mostly) seemed to cut down on time spent waiting.
In Boston, even though everyone drove aggressive, they were predictable. So I felt fine.
Whereas in San Fran, while not as aggressive, other drivers were just random. So I was terrified.
I'm older now, with much reduced acuity and reaction times. My recent visit to El Paso was the most nervous driving experience that I remember. Way worse than LA. I felt like a dog trying to paddle upstream, surrounded by river otters playing.
YMMV.
In Europe you give way to the car to your right and that's it. In the rare case where there's a car going in every possible direction, you just honk it out or light signal until one goes first.
For example, in the UK, roundabouts will be perhaps signposted as coming up - but when you get there, you just yield to the cars already in it, because that's the base law. In the US, roundabouts are less common, and they have a yield sign at every entrance.
Boston is, however, a deviation. Many roads date to the founding of the city and are much like older European cities in terms of layout, but lack any modern signposting.
If I encountered an intersection with no signage at all, the default expectation would be four-way stop.
The US has the concept, but it's not (in California, at least) the default rule for an uncontrolled intersection. For a regular uncontrolled intersection, it is treated as a four-way yield, only a blind intersection (one with less than 100 foot visibility in any direction in the last 100 feet of approach) is treated as a four-way stop.
Yes, it does. But getting permission to drive is cheap and easy in the US, and many people don't know the rules of the road.
> There are essentially no intersections that are not controlled at all by either specific signs or lights.
There are lots of intersections without signs or lights, IME (admittedly, I haven't driven everywhere in the US.)
ORS 811.275
(1) A person commits the offense of failure to yield the right of way at an uncontrolled intersection if the person is operating a motor vehicle that is approaching an uncontrolled highway intersection and the person does not look out for and give right of way to any driver on the right simultaneously approaching a given point, regardless of which driver first reaches and enters the intersection.
I'd expect they exist in most places in the US.
A looong time ago, after the business part of a phone interview, I was chatting with a recruiter who'd moved from Boston to South Florida and he asked me 'Is traffic ...different... here?'
I gave him Dave Barry's explanation: "Everyone here drives according to the rules of their country of origin."
Which reminds me of Sao Paulo. I've never seen more aggressive driving or been gladder that I wasn't driving than in Sao Paulo.
The issue is that cult interactions are crafted to specifically play on social norms. They are HIGHLY manipulative. I'm not saying that you should assume everyone is a manipulator, but you should at least have a little caution while talking to strangers.
I had a college roommate that invited me out to pizza with him and another roommate. I accepted (what could be more normal) and he drove. It was a fucking "pesticide salesman" pitch. That was the last semester I roomed with them.
What is a "pesticide salesman" pitch?
Aptive Environmental looks to be the pesticide MLM.
I deliberately went to a private meeting to see how all of this worked, and it was me and two recruiters with a huge picture of the cult leader.
Super awkward. We asked each other a lot of questions.
One of mine was "Are you sure you're not a cult?"
"Oh no. We're definitely not a cult. Why would you think that? Ha ha. Oh dear. No."
As cults go, I didn't get the impression they were very successful.
I’ve had friends joke about going into the scientology temple in Hollywood as a joke. I always warn against it; cult recruiters are practiced and you are not.
They even try to sound crazy, to discourage well-adapted people.
Like a Nigerian scammer who deliberately uses bad grammar so the only responders are people with dementia.
My experience with cults comes from being part of a large, mainstream church that had cooky and predatory groups operating at the margins of the congregation.
They would target new members who had severe issues: drug abuse, mental illness, having been trafficked.
I’m not sure if the Mormons have anything similar. I read about extreme fundamentalist Mormon groups, but they don’t seem to be recruiting mentally ill/drug addicted mainstream Mormons.
However, I've also done some backpacking on the Appalachian Trail several years ago, and it's far more socially acceptable to start up a conversation with random people you meet along the way. It's understood that we're all strangers but we have a shared goal of hiking the trail, and what else are we going to do when we stop for the night other than chat a bit with the other people in the area?
Had almost nothing but positive experiences speaking with random people while hiking, except for one nutcase (trail name was Mountain Lion) who was carrying a firearm and disclosed to me that he was kicked out of the military for mental health reasons (got to appreciate his honesty, though). I made sure to put as much distance between the two of us ASAP. Later found out he ran out of food, tried to steal from other people, and had to get airlifted out after getting injured. Good times.
I think what it boils down to for me is this: the world is full of loons. If we don't allow ourselves to be open to spontaneous interactions, the average spontaneous interaction we have is more likely to be one involving a loon. Those memories also tend to be more salient because of their negativity, so we need to be intentional in remembering all of the lesser but positive experiences we've had with strangers.
the vancouver area was plagued with the "because I'm a girl" charity muggers for years downtown
I had one accost me and launch into her long spiel without me being able to stop her. When she finally paused to ask me something, I had to tell her I didn't speak Finnish.
(Of course she spoke english but didn't press after that. And now that I think of it, and on-topic I had a similar thing happen with mormons pitching me in German in the Köln area. When they found out I couldn't understand them, they - as Americans - switched to English and we had an interesting conversation between strangers about why we were all there. They did not try to further sell me on the religion other than some very fleeting "if you're interested" as we parted. Overall it was actually interesting to meet them. Maybe it would have been different if I'd got the German pitch, we had a few really awkward approaches from these kind of religions people (evangelizers?) in university that were not as pleasant, I don't know what faith though. )
Completely blows my mind, but they have all been super nice people.
I just couldn’t deal with it again and it’s one of the rudest things I’ve probably ever done. I feel bad but it was an entirely unconscious reaction. I know almost nothing about cars and I really don’t care about them at all.
He moved shortly after (hopefully unrelated lol), so nothing more ever came of that.
I bought a somewhat rarer car a year ago and it has been a similar experience. It feels very wholesome sometimes. Like as a nerdy guy sharing a thumbs up and a smile with someone who by all appearances is full-on gangster and very much far opposite on everything. But there's a common interest in cars and suddenly it doesn't matter as much. There is a lesson in there somewhere about judging people by their appearance.