What should Russia do with Ukraine? | Hacker News Reader

What should Russia do with Ukraine?

medium.com

14 points2222214 comments

This is a scary read for any citizen in a country neighboring russia. This type of propaganda is usually used to prepare the ground for mass murder, like preparing the own population for atrocities to come.

Yes, this is basically asking "What is the solution to the Ukrainian Question?".

> Denazification will inevitably include de-ukrainization — the rejection of the large-scale artificial inflation of the ethnic component in the self-identification of the population

So basically they would like to erase all Ukrainians from Ukraine

The UK declared war on Nazi Germany for its invasion of Poland. This time we're standing back, worried of nuclear war. In effect nuclear weapons may have protected Ukraine, and in hindsight the Budapest memorandum may have been a bad deal for them. But nuclear weapons in the hands of a mafia state, has held the world captive while Ukraine is murdered and raped.

Nuclear proliferation will begin again. The Nuclear non-Proliferation Treat is dead. This will significantly increase the chances of a nuclear conflict at some point in humanity's future. The UN and Geneva Conventions institutional system of international law is dissolving. Russia won't be held to account, they cannot be kicked out of the UN. China assisting Russia contrary to the Charter, and India appears poised to take Russia's side as well. I doubt the West has the stomach for the secondary sanctions on China and/or India that would be required to bring them into compliance with international law. No more iphones for years, literally. All kinds of cheap products and services, would take many years to replicate production capacity elsewhere. Prices would sky rocket for a time. The initial shock of this much inflation would mean many lost American jobs. More pressure to automate.

I do not see a very good future because of what Russia has done, and how limited we are to do anything about it.

"The UN and Geneva Conventions institutional system of international law is dissolving"

It dissolved years ago. "Unlawful combatant", the various UN resolutions about Gaza, etc.

How about leave it asap and pay reparations?

It’s not enough. This has happened a couple of times already, and it’s reasonable to conclude the fake Russian state needs to be split into harmless pieces.

The legal mechanism to split up Russia is in the UN Charter. But the two problems that make it impossible, near as I can tell, (a) it would require a massive military intervention and occupation to do it. It would take a decade to deprogram Russians. (b) Only the Security Council can take such action and Russia and China are permanent members. Clearly they will veto any action holding Russia accountable let alone split it up.

The UN Charter can only be amended by unanimous agreement of the Security Council. So Russia can't be removed from the Charter. The Charter could effectively be dissolved, and a new membership could agree that Russia needs to be split up, therby declaring war on them. But Russia, China, and likely Indian out of such a system, how legal is that really? How legal is international law that only 1/2 the world agrees on?

We've moving past the stage of ever making things right with Ukraine, or Russia. I don't think any of the outcomes look good. Nuclear proliferation will start again. And absent institutions designed to avoid conflict.

The legal mechanism to split up Russia is to decapitate it, so that individual regions will cease cooperation with Moscow.

This is nonsense. Decapitation is not a legal mechanism, it's WW3.

The individual regions lack the capacity to function without Moscow. The state borders were designed by USSR planners to make it extremely expensive (high likelihood of war) to break apart. The borders intentionally cross ethnic boundaries to make a future breakup worse than just tolerating the borders.

Decapitation by NATO would be a war. But it’s fine if it’s done by someone from inside Russia - or perhaps by unnamed “terrorists”.

Regarding Moscow - can you explain what does it provide that regions need? And how does it make hard to break apart when it’s already been done in the past?

> Denazification is necessary when a considerable number of population (very likely most of it) has been subjected to the Nazi regime and engaged into its agenda. That is, when the “good people — bad government” hypothesis does not apply.

So basically they normalize atrocities against civilians.

It is kinda funny because exactly the same argument has been used by many to justify the sanctions against the Russian people. They point out that apparently 70% of the population supports the war and that this justifies punishing them for it, so I would say that this rhetoric mostly harms their own population.

Well whatever common sense and humanity I thought existed in Russia obviously isn't a thing. The west really needs to intervene before there's millions (or tens of millions) dead Ukrainians. Literally watching genocide unfold in front of our eyes and doing nothing.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com