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Comment by tristor | Hacker News Reader

I historically much prefer a desktop computer as well. Despite this, I've exclusively used laptops now for nearly a decade. The reasoning is simple:

When combined with a docking station and external peripherals and input devices, a laptop is just a desktop with an integrated battery backup and screen that can become a mobile computing device on demand.

I've fully adjusted to this way of working, and the real crossover point for me was when laptops became available with enough RAM and graphics capabilities that I no longer felt I needed a desktop to do some of my work. I can run two external displays off my laptop with it as the center screen using ergo monitor stands, and run my external mechanical keyboard, ergo mouse, and my headphone stack, boom microphone, external camera, and wired networking all from a docking station with sufficient bandwidth to not be problematic in 2022. I no longer need or want a desktop.

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One other bonus for laptops is that it's way easier for an IT department to manage. It's got all the guts, all the connectivity, some version of all the major peripherals, and all of that under one SKU.

Support and warranty work is simplified when you only have 4 or 5 models of computer in your org, and can reference a spreadsheet to see exactly what a given user has in front of them.

I still prefer a desktop PC for my personal use, because I play videogames, and a desktop is what's historically best for that. A side benefit of having a personal desktop means that I can reuse whatever peripherals, furniture, etc between either my 'work' or 'home' desk configuration.

If I wanted to go full-circle optimized for my next PC build, which I may as well think about, I could plug all of my peripherals into the same thunderbolt dock, and only worry about that one cable, instead of the (potentially) 4 USB devices I'd be switching back and forth.

> If I wanted to go full-circle optimized for my next PC build, which I may as well think about, I could plug all of my peripherals into the same thunderbolt dock, and only worry about that one cable, instead of the (potentially) 4 USB devices I'd be switching back and forth.

This is what I do with my laptop today. I am considering building a SFF desktop in the future just to have, but before I do so I'd like to find a robust and performant solution for TB4 switching, at which point I'd use the same set of peripherals and input devices for both systems.

I have a Dell monitor (U3419W) that switches USB output based on video input. So all the peripherals (mouse, keyboard, webcam) go to my desktop when the monitor gets an HDMI signal, and to my (work) laptop when it gets a DP signal. Works pretty well.

My next PC build will be SFF, too. I've currently got a small-ish desktop, but want more space on my actual desk, and don't want to move it off because I'd have to deal with variable cable lengths(sit-stand desk).

Going down to mini-ITX motherboard size means I'm going to probably be low on ports and expansion options, so having a dock will be an important part of the setup, and will also help reduce cable clutter/cable shuffling.

One other thing I might look into is an audio switcher. I don't have an 'audio stack', but usually can't stand the electric whine on most basic onboard audio. If I can keep my headphones on, and just flip a switch to change the channel they receive from, I'd be thrilled.

> Support and warranty work is simplified when you only have 4 or 5 models of computer in your org, and can reference a spreadsheet to see exactly what a given user has in front of them.

In theory you could treat desktops the same way. Any hardware problem? Discard entire machine.

This is obviously wasteful compared to replacing only the component which is broken. But it's hard sell to label that as a disadvantage.

True, you can apply it to desktops, but those are bulkier and more expensive to ship. I've kept the box my laptop was shipped to me in, and it's got all bases covered if I need to send it back.

I'd wager that sending a laptop back and forth twice is probably about as expensive as a single round trip for a desktop, and with less risk of breakage, since all the parts are soldered in place, with much less wiggle room for heavier stuff to break off.

Since I've been traveling extensively I have started using a laptop also.

The downsides are the obvious extra cost for the laptop. Less obvious is the maintenance.

Every few years I will spill a drink on my keyboard. If it's an external keyboard I can repair it or replace it easily. If it's a laptop it could be catastrophic failure. Yes I know I can attach keyboard to laptop.

Then there's the laptop screen, it is easily damaged when traveling. Sometimes the damage is minor. My laptop screen recently started having problems, sometimes it works, sometimes it flickers, sometimes it's just a black screen. External monitor is currently attached, but that's a poor mobile solution. Replacing an external monitor is cheap. So, I found a website that can sell me the replacement monitor. I have to decide is it worth repairing or should I get a new one. Cost of repairing is about 1/3rd the cost of a brand new equivalent laptop.

Two more downsides I'd like to add to your list:

- A laptop will never have greater compute power and heat dissipation than a similar tier desktop.

- Current laptop models will often consume more power than can be provided by their included power supplies (one culprit is USB-C's 100 watt limit, the other is simply cost). Thus, their compute endurance is hampered by the battery. I see this when merely running Google Meet.

My first run-in with this was a customer that complained that their computer was slow. When I had a look at it, it was an HP laptop about 10 years ago. While booting I noticed a funny message in the direction of "For full capacity please buy this external power supply from HP". Looked at the power lump and it was about 60 W and the computer had a bad battery so could not keep up at all. They sell expensive laptops and expect you to throw away the power supply and buy a new one?

Yeah, I've seen it justified (by users) as "most of the time I don't need the full capacity and I don't want to pay for that extra capacity when the battery can make up for it".

A lot of assumptions wrapped up in such statements - one of which is the one you found: Batteries are typically among the first components to die.

I always used to unplug the battery when I'm not traveling so it would last longer. Can't do that any more if you need it the whole time.

Nowadays batteries are non-removable and sometimes even soldered in. I miss old laptops.

They still exist but you have to look for them specifically. Usually gaming laptops around 4 kg though :-)

1) My M1 MacBook begs to differ

2) My M1 MacBook begs to differ again

I feel like you are talking about laptops that should not have been laptops in the first place here

First off, I will say that yes, M1 chipsets are much more power efficient than intel based chips. However, this does not make intel based laptops "laptops that should not have been laptops", as evidenced by Apple (and everyone else) producing them for well over a decade.

1) Even with the thermal dissipation a M1 macbook has, a desktop could cool a M1 better. There's simply more room for a larger heatsink with more surface area, and fans that don't have to throttle, than a laptop format could ever provide And with the coming M1 desktops, we will see this in action.

2) The M1 MacBook Pro has a measured draw of ~120 watts under load (measured by anandtech; there's still the GPU to power, despite the better performance of the M1 itself). Apple power supplies, until recently, topped out at around 90 watts.

Here's where Apple's slightly ahead of the game - they're using the updated PD specs in their latest chargers to get a 140 watts out over USB-C, and packing them with the new 16" macbook pros (though not the 14", they're still topping out at 67/94 watts).

So the outlook for M1's in terms of power is better than average, so long as you pay the Apple tax. Worth it? Perhaps. Perfect? Not yet.

> Every few years I will spill a drink on my keyboard

I thought this only happened in movies. I always have drinks around my laptop and desktop, and it hasn't happened to me even once in the last 20 years. In my opinion, the 1/1000 chance of a spill happening in a given year shouldn't guide your purchasing decision.

> Then there's the laptop screen, which is easily damaged when traveling.

How does this happen? Do you drop your laptop often? Do you take it to the beach and does it get full of sand? I always travel with a laptop and cannot picture the screen getting damaged, unless I place the laptop in checked baggage.

Not the OP, but I just lost a keyboard to a spilled drink as well. Not all of us have perfect dexterity and spatial awareness at all times.

I haven't lost a laptop screen to dropping it, though I have had a laptop screen spontaneously fail--two in fact. Both were HP laptops. Not buying those any more.

This reminds me of people who always forget their keys. I always thought: "nah that doesn't happen to anyone", and then I discovered it happens to a lot of people. Different brains work very differently, and there are some common bugs that affect some people but not others. See also those who can't stand watching a video to learn about a subject, versus those that can't stand reading. And that's even without getting started on personality disorders.

It's really hard to internalize it if you are not "weird" in any of those ways, but we should all be more aware of it.

Exactly. I spill drinks periodically, but I don't ever forget my keys.

I don't ever let them leave my pocket, of course, so I'd need to forget my pants to forget my keys...but we did agree not to get started on personality disorders. ;)

Others in the company always buys those paper thin laptops that can't be opened. They either break or get stolen. Not sure how they treat them. Mine is built like a tank and can hardly be called laptop. It mostly gets used with Anydesk from a desktop computer though it does follow nicely on trips for work now and then. Not a scratch on it.

My wife's MacBook was destroyed when a small cup of water was spilled on the other end of the coffee table. Apparently it was so thin that the water could flow right into the back vents. Sadly, we didn't realize it had been exposed, and turned it on the next day.

It's large laptop, 4.56 kg and a 17 inch screen. This makes it a bit bulky for carry on. I often check it in luggage, I take pains to wrap it to prevent damage, but I'm sure at least some has occurred when checked. Yes, I know it's fairly foolish to check a laptop, but for it's weight, it's a pain to lug around as carry on. This laptop has lasted about 4.5 years so far. So, I agree with the 1/1000 chance of a spill happening shouldn't really factor into purchasing decision.

Regarding spilled drinks, sometimes it's just been morning coffee, sometimes it's a beer late at night. I've only had one cup of coffee go into this laptop (apparently without damage as it was months ago), but I've taken out several external keyboards over the years.

I had a mug handle break, shatter my trackpad and spill all over my keyboard. I now treat any mug with a level of distrust.

To be quite honest that sounds like you problems and not laptop problems.

I have never managed to spill anything on my MacBook and I travel 24/7 and it is in prime condition.

Speaking about condition, it seems to me like you really just have to condition yourself to not place any liquid near it and always keep it in a good protective bag.

Sounds like you need a thinkpad. New screens for my x220 are 40 bucks on aliexpress, a new keyboard is like 15. In addition, the keyboard has drainage holes, I use it routinely with dripping wet hands and the keyboard survived a coke spill + cleaning with flowing water.

Add to your list, Flexgate.

Macbooks have become notorious for industrial design faults that come up late in the lifetime of a laptop.

The main advantage of a desktop that you can't get from a laptop with a dock is that they can be a lot faster.

There isn't any laptop that gets anywhere close to a 64-core Threadripper on threaded workloads. There are some that are competitive with 8-core desktop processors, but then they cost ~twice as much.

But this only matters if you care about more than single thread performance.

> There isn't any laptop that gets anywhere close to a 64-core Threadripper on threaded workloads.

Challenge accepted.

https://www.mediaworkstations.net/systems/portable-amd-works...

"30-45 lbs"

If it needs wheels, it probably isn't a laptop!

> Some men see things as they are and ask why, I dream things that never were and ask why not

-- George Bernard Shaw

It's also much easier and cheaper to build and repair a desktop in a normal tower with normal parts that you can get in the neighbour store when it breaks down at the worst possible moment (last week for example when the harddrive broke together... or the week before when the memory gave up and computer started crashing... Or last year when one of the other computers graphics card fan gave up) Open up, replace part, boot up and test. Back to work.

For a company it is often cheaper to give someone a replacement laptop than have them waste time fault finding.

At 45 pounds, I would genuinely consider a rolling rack. My video mixer, using a Silverstone HTPC case, fits in a shorty 5U Gator case with room to spare for an audio interface and a power distributor.

If I understand correctly, your argument is laptops are better because they can do everything a desktop can and can be mobile? I can't follow this at all.

Mobility is a negative: so now your company can ask you to carry your laptop with you when you're on holiday, or ask you to complete work at the airport when traveling to the Denver office. And I feel like you missed GPs point about ergonomics -- you won't get any of that when moving. If you feel like mobile is a benefit WRT ergonomics you simply don't care about ergonomics.

The laptop form factor takes up extra desk space, and laptops are sill significantly more expensive for similar desktop performance.

Or maybe his work/life situation is different than you imagine? I’ve been working as a solo freelancer for the past 10 years and for the majority of that time I used a laptop connected to external monitor as my primary machine.

You get all the benefits of a desktop environment plus the convenience of being able to work remotely and carry your machine with you when needed.

I don’t have a company telling me to work from an airport. And as for ergonomics, you don’t get those with a desktop machine either when moving so I don’t see what different does that make.

A laptop offers you options. That’s why for some people is appealing.

This is how I do it, can't work without the external mouse, keyboard, and laptop stand. Haven't owned a desktop since 7 years.

I fully agree with this. I am a desktop holdout as well moving to my first laptop in decades in 2022

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