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Comment by t0mas88 | Hacker News Reader

The Dutch railways said (in Dutch) themselves that it was a problem with the scheduling software which also has a role in safety. Apparently this is also used to route around for example a stopped train, so when it's not working it's not safe to operate anything but a handful of trains.

There was a lot of extra impact because this system also feeds the passenger information so their app, website and information screens at the stations were not working either leaving passengers in the dark.

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There is no correlation between the schedule you see at Dutch train stations monitor screens, and the actual schedule of Dutch trains:-)

You might see this is an ironic comment, but it is as much that, and as much a technical statement of fact. Sometimes the trains arrive at the correct time ( +/- 10 min) so they correlate to what you are seeing on the screen.

But unless it's a delay of 1 hour or more, neither trains or tracks will be updated on the screens. It's just happen they sometimes coincide, so they might correlate, but only by coincidence. Trains schedule and train reporting on the train station are, I was told..."Run by different companies!"

-> Source: Conversation with platform manager at Amsterdam Central Station a few years ago. ( not that many years...)

You either misunderstood, misremembered or were misinformed. As long as I've been taking the trains (20 years or so) here, the monitors have always updated with schedule changes. Even when the information screens were still analogue, they updated with delays and track changes.

It might be that what you heard only applied to international trains, those have generally lagged behind technology-wise (though nowadays there's certainly also real-time schedule information for them).

Not true. It's not if the screens get updated. They do not get updated based on the actual train on the track but from information info you can infer from an pre-established schedule.

Let me tell more about what prompted the conversation with the platform manager. I was staying at a hotel in Amsterdam while doing an IT project in the north of the country. One of the days took the wrong train. At that time, I just attributed it to not really carefully reading the platform indicator. The next day had to take the same train, at the same time, carefully checked the platform monitor, but as I had been burned the previous day....Decided to also ask the train ticket controller at the train door. He laughed and pointed me to another different indicator some trains have, and that happened to show a different destination for that specific train.

The cognitive dissonance that I experienced was so strong, I decided right there to also be late that day, look for the train station manager, for a polite but frustrated conversation on my part, and it was then he clarified this.

Also any Internet search will show others with similar experiences.

Edit: Looking at this example from 6 months ago...Continues to happen:-)

https://community.ns.nl/dienstregeling-59/geen-sprinter-maar...

> Not true. It's not if the screens get updated. They do not get updated based on the actual train on the track but from information info you can infer from an pre-established schedule.

Not true in general. The screens do actually get updated based on the actual schedule when there are track changes and/or delays. They don't stubbornly stick to the pre-planned schedule. I've seen that happen countless times. That said, occasionally I've seen the screens lag behind reality a bit, usually during and around big disturbances.

> Edit: Looking at this example from 6 months ago...Continues to happen:-)

> https://community.ns.nl/dienstregeling-59/geen-sprinter-maar...

This example doesn't support your argument: there's not even a claim there that the screens weren't correct.

Translating only one part of the long thread it says exactly what I was referring to:

"...Ik zeg “als het goed was” want soms gebeurt het bij vertragingen wel eens dat de schermen een verkeerde trein aangeven..."

"...I say “if it was good” because sometimes it happens with delays that the screens indicate the wrong train..."

They got GPS tracking on the trains. Any delay over 5 minutes will show up automatically, less than 5 minutes you can see on the app. The train operator took over the information screens, so it's all part of the same company now.

Do you know as from which date?

It has nothing to do with safety it's pure a who is where system.

Curious why “who is where” is unrelated to safety? You mean it doesn’t affect the signaling?

Signaling is on a separate system. There is ATB-EG/ATB-NG for max speed and there is ATB-Vv for stopping for red lights.

Part of train history in the Netherlands is the train disaster at Harmelen in 1962 where 93 people died. It spurred the installation of these systems. Every time there is even a minor accident with a train, the national governement is asking questions, up to the highest level. For contrast, every time a child dies in traffic, only the local government (gemeente) asks questions. It is considered completely unacceptable for a train accident to involve more than 2 deaths, it seems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmelen_train_disaster

There are several systems all with specific functions.

ProRail the infra manager has all the systems related to safety and long term planning. Think air traffic control to keep it simple.

NS has all the systems for communication with passengers and personnel and train movement (planning). Think airliner.

Which on a train system is paramount for safety, otherwise you'd have trains crashing into each other because they're on the same track.

Different system, that'd be the switches/signalling. Freight and international trains were running just fine, safely. This was literally just planning which train (rolling stock) is going to operate which train (ride) with which personnel.

Safety could be related to duty times, or making sure the rolling stock is fit for a certain trajectory (maximum platform length, weight restrictions etc.)

No the section a train is on is automatically and mechanically secured by the lights on the section ahead and afterwards. (2 sections if you count the yellow warning lights)

Unless they are operating a dynamic block system like the channel tunnel lines and other high speed lines across Europe. Anything that runs over 125mph (or has to mix with traffic which does) isn't using block signalling.

True dynamic block ("moving block") still isn't that widespread, at least as far main line railways are concerned. High-speed lines are still by far and large using fixed block signalling with conventional train detection (track circuits or axle counters), it's just that the movement authority is given via some sort of cab signalling.

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