What is "the third gender?"
[..] Third gender is a concept in which individuals are categorized, either by themselves or by society, as neither man nor woman. It is also a social category present in societies that recognize three or more genders. The term third is usually understood to mean "other", though some anthropologists and sociologists have described fourth and fifth genders.[..]
It’s like having a door shut instead of saying No. If we can sort out the fundamental inequality and unfair playing ground, then we don’t have to argue ad nauseum ad infinitum about unequal pay.
Discuss it. Please. If not with me, amongst yourselves in your safe spaces. For your children and future generations’ sakes. Status Quo is damaging for our futures.
You're like the Purity faction, who bends all new technology around human whims and limitations (dome cities, big anthropomorphic mechs), solving the issue by segregating genders into silos where their whims and limitations are directly catered to.
There's two other factions in the game, Supremacy and Harmony, both of which are transhuman, who transcend their human whims and limitations and exploit and adapt to new technologies on the technologies' novel terms.
Purity is comfier and easier, but I think it's a net retardation of growth and development. (It's certainly a regression in terms of liberal egalitarianism.) That future is stagnation. Transcendence is the key. We should all become third gender. (Just kidding. I had nothing else to end with. By the way, your emphasis on "third gender" is pretty unusual to me. Do you mean non-binary people? Or are you using it as some TERFy catch-all for trans people? :p)
Although I do subscribe to transhumanism philosophy IRL. But there are all flavours of transhumanists. We don’t all agree with each other.
Third gender is the term used in India for transgender. They are a very visible group with their third gender identity for centuries now and are part of our societies. They are recognized and it is important to recognize third gender as a category so they don’t feel the need to identify with the biological genders. It is a failure of western society that they haven’t been recognized as non-binary and hence rendered invisible.
Aaaah. That makes sense.
The reason that was unusual to me was because, in the West, currently, the prevailing view/jargon is that there's genders, and each gender can be "cis" or "trans". More controversially, there are also non-binary people, who may report no gender, a mix of genders, or a gender other than "man"/"woman". That would be your usage of "third gender".
In Hindu puranas, there are many gods we worship who are of two genders, transgender and then there is the father of Ganga(the holiest River of Hinduism) who was born to two women.
Here is ..provided with much reservations…a generic search result link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mytholo... ..I reject all western interpretations and ‘scholarly work’ and have a dim view of western style psychoanalysis of my gods and culture. But it works..as a list.
Describing men and women as different species is technically wrong. Women and men who are psychologically healthy don't want to be separated from each other because they like each other. I read Out of Africa recently and this quote stuck with me:
> The love of woman and womanliness is a masculine characteristic, and the love of man and manliness a feminine characteristic
The reason I brought up the example of healthcare is because that’s the most egregious injustice against women. Because of women’s biology and the primary care taking role they adopt(and are good at..), our healthcare needs are different. And yet..women are not taken seriously when they complain of pain and are always under prescribed pain meds. They are not believed if they explain their symptoms.
It’s worse in the USA by all accounts Altho I don’t have first hand healthcare experience in other countries(well..other than india and UK). And yet, we are supposed to be peers with men who never go through half the illnesses or conditions we experience. Doesn’t quality of healthcare and health condition and mental well being affect how people work? How are we ‘equal’ to men?
And yet…in a workplace you can’t discriminate. The only solution is to create separate economic blocs and healthcare blocs for different genders as we all have different struggles that affect our ability to perform in professional and social spheres. There is no need for seperataion in communal spheres.
I think often about healthcare and health insurance that is exclusively for women. How will it change our quality of life? This isn’t to say that men are inferior or that women are superior..nor is it a victim card. Absolutely not! But to not see the differences is a fail. No one wins.
So we come to pregnancy, PMS and menopause…all of which have been caricatured that many women feel like they shouldn’t complain. We are reduced and clubbed under the label of ‘ menstruating persons’ and ‘birthing people’. And these are official terms. Slowly our dignity and our identity is being erased.
Men don’t care enough for women because it’s not their battle to fight(and that’s ok) because they have no lived experience. I don’t know why the third gender wants to appropriate our identity when they haven’t shared our struggles. Women are the silent majority whose cries aren’t heard anymore but are still judged as equal players and competitors on playing fields that is grossly unfair.
P.S: I would have appreciated your words if you didn’t call my comment ‘deranged’. I am less inclined to take someone seriously when their evaluation of my words is needlessly rude. Perhaps choose your words and consider if it comes across as an insult. Thanks.
ETA P.S2: In a forum that had an equal or higher split of male: female ratio unlike this testosterone heavy HN, my comment wouldn’t have been flagged. Or called ‘deranged’. There would have been at least some curiosity and a discussion even if there were some who would disagree.
ETA PS3: Imagine if it is so in a small forum online…imagine how it would be for women who work in male dominated work places and a world that has more power vested with men. Men make decisions about women’s reproductive rights in Texas. A man in Utah decided that it’s ok for a transgender student to compete with biological girls students in high school sports. Transgender women insult biological women calling them TERFs. Women have lost all agency. This needs to change.
Some women want to compete with men in the workplace, the academy, wherever. Besides, men are not equal to other men. Nor are women.
> The reason I brought up the example of healthcare is because that’s the most egregious injustice against women. Because of women’s biology and the primary care taking role they adopt(and are good at..), our healthcare needs are different. And yet..women are not taken seriously when they complain of pain and are always under prescribed pain meds. They are not believed if they explain their symptoms.
Most new doctors are women. Going forward, I think you're going to have a hard time blaming this on men doctors.
> It’s worse in the USA by all accounts Altho I don’t have first hand healthcare experience in other countries(well..other than india and UK). And yet, we are supposed to be peers with men who never go through half the illnesses or conditions we experience. Doesn’t quality of healthcare and health condition and mental well being affect how people work? How are we ‘equal’ to men?
Women have better immune systems than men and live longer.
> So we come to pregnancy, PMS and menopause…all of which have been caricatured that many women feel like they shouldn’t complain. We are reduced and clubbed under the label of ‘ menstruating persons’ and ‘birthing people’. And these are official terms. Slowly our dignity and our identity is being erased.
These are bizarre neologisms invented 5 minutes ago and used by a tiny group of people. I agree that they're grotesque but there's no reason to think they're going to catch on.
> P.S: I would have appreciated your words if you didn’t call my comment ‘deranged’. I am less inclined to take someone seriously when their evaluation of my words is needlessly rude. Perhaps choose your words and consider if it comes across as an insult. Thanks.
Sorry for "deranged" but you said men and women are different species. That's an extremely odd thing to say.
> ETA P.S2: In a forum that had an equal or higher split of male: female ratio unlike this testosterone heavy HN, my comment wouldn’t have been flagged. Or called ‘deranged’. There would have been at least some curiosity and a discussion even if there were some who would disagree.
Your post would be flagged almost anywhere on the internet. Most online spaces dominated by women would consider your views about trans people to be hate speech (I don't).
I agree with you that men and women are not the same. But under the law, we are treated the same. This creates all sorts of conflicts. I don't know how to solve these conflicts, and equality under the law seems indispensible. I think we just have to live with an imperfect arrangement and I would point out that women aren't on the losing end of every conflict.
Example: It is like belonging to a country as a citizen with citizen rights. Those who want to emigrate are free to join any other country they want.
Today women are guests in a world built by men. I am just saying we need a country and passport of our own.
2. I am not ‘blaming anything on male doctors’ as you are suggesting. I am not saying that you are purposely misreading me, but I am afraid there is a communication problem here. English is not my first language and so I will take responsibility for not being clear.
However, claiming that ‘women have a better immune system than men and live longer’ is dismissive. And this is exactly what I mean about the need to separate from men because it is absolutely unacceptable.
[..] "Gender influences that way that people are treated and diagnosed in health systems," Annandale said. "It influences the kind of health conditions that men and women suffer from, the way people relate to their own bodies, and what kind of access to health care they have." Understanding gender differences in health can help scientists and doctors find ways to better treat patients, she said. "Women generally live longer than men, but in many countries that gap in life expectancy has been decreasing over time. One of the reasons for that is thought to be that men's health is improving, but women's is not." [..]
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-women-report-...
3. Yes, they are ‘bizarre neologisms..used by a tiny group of people’.. but..BUT..how many are actually talking about it? It is once again dismissed as ‘bizarre’ and those who protest it are either being cancelled or called TERFs.
There is a clear line in the sand and it is always men on the other side throwing sand on our eyes. We have no support.
If I posted a poll here on HN about definition of Woman, I will be flagged and possibly banned.
I have seen posts here about HNers expressing how lonely they are or how to deal with isolation or mental health. But this isn’t a community where I can express my dejection over my experience and feelings as a woman. You dismissed my lived experience as ‘bizarre’ and ‘deranged’.
I am not saying this as an accusation but just that it reminds me of other experiences with most men. perhaps you are a woman or transgender or non binary..I have no way of knowing and so I am not going to assume that you are male. There is just low relatability that we might as well be ‘different species’.
4. I am a little offended that you consider that my speech would be considered ‘hate speech’. Perhaps on the internet because there is no free speech on the internet.
People are afraid of being accused of ‘hate speech’ that even normal conversation is being stifled. And this is about a subject that affects me as a woman.
I am sure there are men here who have daughters. Husbands who have wives who agree with me. Men with female friends. But I am also pretty positive that they will remain silent. Because this is radioactive. But if we don’t assess the radioactivity of a site and discuss further action, it will affect everyone in time. That is the tragedy of being silent due to cancel culture. There are no winners.
How can a woman fighting and claiming her identity be tagged with ‘hate speech’? This is our VERY IDENTITY that is being erased and stripped away from us.
I am not trying to be dramatic here..but as I am typing this, I have a lump in my throat and I don’t know if I am at the cusp of rage..or tears.
This is absolutely unfair what is happening in the world. It is unfair for girls, women and all the unborn girl children. I am not sure I can continue. I am done here.
Thanks for engaging.