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Comment by icare_1er | Hacker News Reader

Systemic discriminations against men.

I suspect there will be an emotional reaction to a message posted naked like this, but assuming you're not trolling or trying to farm for downvotes: You're not entirely wrong.

There is absolutely a correlation between education being focused on female success (a combination of predominantly female teaching staff and optimising for traits generally held by women such as agreeableness) and the trends we've been seeing for 30 years now.

Unfortunately this is not the popular narrative, but it does need to be discussed.

EDIT: I, unlike the parent, am not trolling, so if you're going to downvote I would prefer a rebuttal.

Citation 1 (agreeableness as a direct consequence of academic success): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S104160802...

Citation 2 (women on average are more agreeable than men): https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00178

Citation 3 (Gender distribution of academic success over the last few decades): https://w3.unece.org/PXWeb2015/pxweb/en/STAT/STAT__30-GE__04...

Citation 4 (Gender distribution of teachers in the USA): https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/clr

Citation 5 (Gender of teacher affecting academic performance of same gender): https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/696203

So we have direct correlation with a personality trait, it being attributed to a sex and a seeming consequence.

I could be wrong, but while correlation does not equal causation: this does seem to be a very strong correlation.

None of this shows systemic discrimination against men.

Systematic Discrimination is not an intent, it is a consequence.

As defined: “Systematic discrimination, also called institutionalized discrimination, refers to a method of discrimination which occurs regularly in the workplace as an inherent part of the company through interactions and processes creating a disadvantage for people with common set characteristics such as race, gender and disability over a long period of time. Systematic discrimination is not apparent at first sight but is actually systematic in its application of policies and practices.”

Similar evidence is presented commonly to explain why the executives are predominantly male, I'm not sure why the circumstances must be different here.

Women are under-represented among university professors.

Even if true, which you assert without citation: How would that affect who goes to university?

The average amount of time a person has been taught by a professor is a tiny tiny portion of the individual person education. It would be interesting to see a number for it, but I suspect its significant less than 0.1% of all the hours that the average person spend in the education system. Professors are under-represented in the education system.

You managed to read all 5 of the citations in less than 20 minutes?

I don't question the particular claims in isolation, but they are obviously cherry-picked. If having more female middle-school teachers have a discriminatory effect towards males, then surly having more male university professors and are discriminatory towards women, right? Somehow women have still been able to overcome that, historically.

Last year I was considering applying to a master in the IT field.

The University which had the programme I liked the most didn't offer for scholarships for men that I could apply for, only for women or trans-women.

This is not how "systemic discrimination" defined nowadays. You can't define systemic discrimination against men in one way (with intention), and define systemic discrimination against women in a different way (only look at specific outcomes).

If we define any difference in outcome as discrimination (which I don't find useful, but I'll accept it for the sake of argument), then I think we should make a clear distinction between discriminatory factors which the individual affected can control and change, and discriminatory factors which are outside of the control of the individual.

All of that shows systemic discrimination against men.

But the outcomes are so the system is discriminatory.

As a man, I can tell you that I have experienced discrimination exactly zero times.

Your government doesn't do gender-specific subsidies?

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