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Comment by goethes_kind | Hacker News Reader

Somebody should setup the uncool and reliable brand of male clothing. I want the Toyota Corolla of male clothing. I do not care about fashion. I want to wear timeless long lasting clothes. Don't care about branding either. Just somebody please setup a shop where I do not have to worry about quality, but is also not a shop that pretends that every item of clothing is hand tailored by an Italian craftsman and costs half a thousand euros.

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LL Bean used to make the "timeless and long lasting" clothes you're looking for, but sadly has gone downhill in recent years. It's still noticeably better quality than J.Crew or Banana Republic, but many things are much thinner than they used to be.

Avoid outlets or "factory" stores (clothes are made specifically for outlets.) Avoid J.Crew, Brooks Brothers, Banana Republic, H&M, TJ Maxx, the Gap. Avoid anything that's gone bankrupt, or been acquired (JC Penney.) Avoid pretty much everything on Amazon.

One decent sign of quality is the thickness of the materials. Some manufacturers will actually note the weight (in gsm or grams per m2.) I have the exact t-shirt in 160gsm and 300gsm from the same company and the 300gsm feels way more substantial/high quality/will last longer. It's also the only t-shirt I've ever gotten compliments on. Of course, higher weights are also warmer. Another decent sign is the materials themselves. Avoid anything plastic-based (nylon, polyester, acrylic, microfiber, etc.) Some materials I love and would recommend in some cases (cashmere, silk, merino wool) but are less durable, so avoid those if you're going for uncool and reliable. High quality cotton and wool, depending on how it's woven, can last forever. Leather starts to age, but if you take care of it it can be a good look.

Also, don't have unrealistic expectations. Even the "best overall running shoe of 2022" from RunRepeat (who do serious running shoe reviews, tear them down etc) - is only expected to last 400-500 miles. Things have a finite lifespan.

You can also make a significant difference by how you wash your clothes. Washing gentle on cold (or hand washing) can make some clothes last several times longer, easily.

If you do all those things (buy high quality to start, made from wool/cotton/leather, wash gentle on cold) you can get 10 years out of a piece of clothing if you don't wear it too often. I've gotten a couple hundred wears over 10+ years out of several LL Bean shirts myself.

American Giant. Period.

Made in USA, absolutely amazing quality. The entire end-to-end supply chain from cotton to thread in the USA.

https://www.american-giant.com/

When you find a good quality item that you like a lot go back and get extras! Different colors or just some to store away for when your current copy wears out.

I've been liking Duckworth recently, especially their all-wool lines. Pricey, but the shirts appear to be holding up better than Icebreaker and Wooley, and they're made entirely in the US, from wool to shirt. Shame about LL Bean, I've been noticing this about them too, especially since they dropped their legendary warranty.

There's quite a bit of that. Pendleton, Duluth Trading, Lands End to name a few in the US. A lot of them offer very boxy fits, but whole categories like workwear are basically "durable and reliable clothing" - or at least pretending to be. A problem arises when you want modern fit + durable + fashionable; that's when you start to see huge price tags.

The combination of fashionable and durable doesn't make sense: fashions change quickly, so why should an article of clothing outlive the fashion it was meant to serve? To embrace durability in clothing — which I would far rather remain a choice rather than be mandated — you have to embrace social durability, that is, looks that are socially acceptable but not fashionable.

I've been going shopping for shirts/jeans for 30 years now, and when I see something I like I always pinch it between my fingers to check the fabric. Had a fabulous 100% cotton Polo RL shirt that lasted me 10 years until creases around cuffs and the collar literally disintegrated. Went to the same section just last month and the most expensive, fancy shirt there was as thin as rice paper. You could see through it!

I'm not sure what to do. It might be time to switch to an online source, but then I can't "pinch the fabric" as easily - have to return what I don't like. Wish there was a source with fabric specs, but I have little hope. As it is you can barely get the manufacturers to fess up the material blend, hiding it in between a bunch of other tags in fine print or in weird spots.

Not anymore. Pendleton moved production to China a few years back. Duluth has gone far, far downhill (and killed their lifetime warranty.) Lands End is also a shadow of what it was. You only need to hold the new next to the old to see.

The same goes for LL Bean (killed their lifetime warranty, product quality went way downhill) and Filson (they even killed their slogan "Might as Well Have the Best".)

I'm not sure what's left, to be honest; let me know if anyone knows if high quality clothes still exist anymore.

Pendleton still manufactures fabric in the US - although some product lines are probably made in China these days. The fact is none of these companies have much in the way of margins, if you want higher quality, you just have to spend more.

You’re correct that they don’t have high margins, but what you imply by it is wrong. People commonly confuse margin and markup. Markup is the difference between the cost of the goods and their sale price. (Net) margin is unrelated to the cost of goods and is simply the profit generated as a percentage of revenue.

These businesses have extremely high markups because they spend lots of money on marketing or marketing-adjacent things, plain and simple. It’s typically quite easy to see - around the same time that they’ll shift from made in the USA with a lifetime warranty they’ll start paying “influencers”, hiring marketers, sending things to blogs, maintaining a beefed-up social media presence, increasing ad spend etc. They simultaneously cut material costs by outsourcing and raise marketing spend. Their profit margin may not even be changed - but with the higher growth rates that the marketing spend brings the business is more appealing.

There’s no reason you can’t get quality goods at reasonable prices. LL Bean, although not cheap, was reasonably priced before they slashed quality a few years ago. Darn Tough is not cheap but the prices aren’t crazy and they’re made in the USA with a lifetime guarantee. American Apparel was 100% made in the USA until some years back and was solid quality. Los Angeles Apparel is 100% MiUSA and solid quality, prices are fairly reasonable. Clothing just doesn’t cost that much to make; MiUSA and good quality is possible, it just needs to make a comeback.

I appreciate the discussion, but I don't really see the evidence in the numbers for these companies over the last decade or so, maybe it appears on a 20-30 year timeframe. Their gross margins and SG&A haven't changed significantly, although they have for others like Columbia Sportswear. American Apparel, just to pick out one of your examples, was bankrupted with MiUSA.

I'm wondering about the impact of ecommerce now though, especially higher return rates.

I'm not sure who you're finding data for, but most of these businesses are private and you have to look at other indicators. For LL Bean, for example, I was a loyal customer for years and paid close attention to their website, stores and social media. It was obvious when they dramatically cut the quality of their clothing and increased the gloss and marketing, to the point that an employee at a local store commented on it to me. You can't just cut quality and rest on your laurels, or the brand will slowly die (see American Apparel) - you have to cut quality and increase marketing spend, exploiting your former good name (see LL Bean - quality far down, but revenue way up.)

I don't think that American Apparel was bankrupted by MiUSA - now that they've switched away from MiUSA they seem to be a shadow of their former self. In any case, from 1989 to 2014 was a solid run, and their 2014 demise was quickly followed by other MiUSA companies copying a similar model. I think MiUSA can work - Darn Tough, LA Apparel, New Balance, Allen Edmonds, etc.

I think you may have a point with return rates - with lower markups you'd be more affected.

Uni-Qlo.

I haven't tried any other items from them, but I own one sweater from them and I have no bad words to say about it. The quality is superb and it has lasted me a long time. Anecdotal experience, but so far a good one.

> lasted me a long time

That only indicates what the quality was a long time ago. I’ve seen far too many brands and products go from good quality to poor quality over the years. Good quality sold N years ago says nothing about the quality currently sold, unfortunately.

I found their jeans to not be good quality. I had a pair get holes after one year of use.

One year? That's pretty good by my standards. I suffer a crotch blowout roughly every 3 months or so. Jeans, apparently, are not made for people with thighs, nor for people who enjoy sitting cross legged. And certainly not both.

As a guy with lifter's legs, I can recommend American Eagle's flex line jeans, whatever they're currently called by their branding department. They come in a wide range of sizes so you can easily match what you need, and also different fits. I used to have the problem you described and no longer do.

Uniqlo's better than most fast fashion brands, but it's still pretty mediocre and made in deplorable conditions.

from the Wikipedia page on Uniqlo...

>> In January 2021, Uniqlo shirts were blocked at the US border over concerns of violations related to a ban on cotton products produced in the Xinjiang region of China due to reports of forced labour. A protest was filed by Uniqlo's parent company Fast Retailing, but was denied.

>> In March 2022, Fast Retailing decided to remain in the Russian market despite Russia's attack on Ukraine saying that clothing is a "necessity of life".

Filson, Bastong and Arc'teryx should be right up your alley.

I found Arc'teryx quality to be decreasing in the last couple of years.

If their quality is no longer up to snuff there's always veilance.

My two cents:

Bonobos for shirts and jeans

Pt01 and Pt05 for pants (sales are up to 50%)

Pure Waste for t-shirts and colleges

Asket and Everlane for everything else

American Giant

In Europe you should be able to find:

- We (their men stores)

- Uniqlo

Uniqlo and Carhartt

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