The Problem with Jon Stewart
andrewsullivan.substack.com
andrewsullivan.substack.com
Why is it on Hacker News?
Substack seems to be a pretty efficient echo chamber, having people subscribe to read individual journalists. In a newspaper or magazine, there are still editorial themes, but at least some minimal level of diversity in reporting and viewpoints.
But now you can just get 100% Andrew Sullivan content and read comments by fellow Andrew Sullivan readers.
Sadly, I’d imagine getting enough siloed reinforcement makes one think the article is valid enough to be valuable to HN.
What's next, Bannon's manifesto?
I thought this specific episode was bad and poorly represents the problems. Stewart is all over the place with his views. I honestly didn't really understand what was trying to be said through the episode although many of his other episodes follow a single narrative.
Video in question to the article:
Sounds like your bias talking.
One can look up Conan skits on YouTube by just typing in his name.
I think the single most hardest thing to do is to escape ones own perspective.
Good. That means he has the ability to think for himself and doesn’t feel the need to comply with some BS partisan orthodoxy.
We all live on campus now: https://archive.ph/r3hBu
What happened to you?: https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-you-e...
Interview with Ezra Klein: https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/andrew-sullivan-and-i-...
He's the kind of gay conservative who promotes conservatism for everything, except where it would be a detriment to gays. He rides the progressive train until it's his stop, and then tries to derail it. It's ugly, cynical and selfish.
But agree the show could have taken and responded better to his viewpoints.
So…because he colors outside of the “established” lines it’s selfish? Honestly, this expectation for partisan political orthodoxy from people representing specific groups is so scary.
Brave is taking a principled position, regardless of the crowd. Unselfish is doing so despite the personal cost. This guy is neither. He just wants to have it both ways.
I would hope they learned from the experience, but sadly I doubt it.
We are all homo sapiens and should be offered the same opportunities as everyone else. Do not discriminate against race, against gender, against religion, against political affiliation, or any other category that may be used to make people in an "other" category.
To be fair, many of the evils committed historically never ceased to be committed.
It just goes to show that most people don't base their beliefs on first principles and ideals but rather subconscious social cues and pressure. The US right wing has been taking advantage of this for decades with Rupert Murdoch and FOX leading the way, and it was only a matter of time for the left wing to join in.
Elected representatives of all sides are constantly diluting and bastardising noble ideas for expedience.
Indeed, the US should oppose those things inside their own boundaries where they have the right to. There is no reason to assume the US is virtuous and right on any given moral issue. In fact there are lots of reasons pointing towards the opposite case. We (I) don't want the US to invade other countries with its "concern" and cause mass civilian casualties.
So the US has a right to sell weapons to anyone abroad, but when it comes to the humanitarian consequences suddenly borders matter? If you want to be isolationist then be consistent. Having the benefits of international trade requires equivalent moral responsibility.
"There is no reason to assume the US is virtuous and right on any given moral issue."
There are lots of reasons pointing to the opposite, but that doesn't mean it can't be either. You could just as easily define 'right' as everyone intervening anywhere, regardless of borders, to prevent mass civilian casualties. One obvious case comes to mind.
The US hasn't intervened when it comes to mass civilian casualties in Pakistan, Kashmir, North Korea, etc, etc, etc. The US is hypocritical (like many countries) and intervenes when it is convenient.
On a related note - do you support Putin's invasion out of "concern" for the people of Donetsk?
And just look at all the supposed (note the word "supposed" here, as there is a true left still) left wing pundits calling for weapons and even involvement in the Ukraine.
I just looked at google news and there's one right on the front page of my particular feed:
https://news.yahoo.com/nyc-top-health-official-refers-003159...
Dems are 20% more likely to support US intervention and 'support' for Ukraine - sorry I wish I had the data point, but it's there.
Dems are hugely in favour of overtly, institutionally discriminatory practices for hiring, medical practices etc.. For example NY state's rationing policy for COVID antivirals favours 'people of colour' by quite a lot. Obviously it's ostensibly in 'good faith' an attempt to create better outcomes, but it probably doens't really and it's arguably racist.
I don't generally think the Left is more nationalist and war-like - that's just a peculiarity of the moment, but the Left is 100% more concerned about issue of race and policies that effectively discriminate. Again, for what they deem to be legitimate reasons, but that doesn't make them right.
But to say the left should always oppose war is incorrect. If the world grew closer to fascism, the left would be calling out more to fight it. That doesn't make it any more warlike than, for example, small countries facing imperialism, or tribes facing colonialism. Distributing power improves the chances for peace, or so the principle goes.
Also by 'Dem' I should have said 'Left'.
I'm not even technically against polices that are overtly discriminatory, except that they would have to be 'very, very exceptional'.
But the Left supports those, which are arguably racist.
It's not my political posture one way or the other, I'm just responding to the point that the Left is 'not for war or racism' - when they can definitely support war, and polices that are unfortunately racist, even for 'bad reasons'.
The Left can be trusted to have a 'Kernel of Good Faith' on issues of Social Justice. When someone form the Left says they are concerned about it - I believe it. But one step beyond that and I'm cynical. In much the same way I am fully fine with 'flag waiving' and 'acts of patriotism'. But it makes me jittery quickly because that stuff can get mean pretty quickly as well.
I don't know you, or whether you fit into that category. But so much of the pearl clutching we see the days from the right is clearly disingenuous. Maybe that's why the left doesn't take it seriously and will vote accordingly.
Bernie Sanders is a good, consistent example of a left wing advocate - by clearly opposing the Iraq war and clearly opposing the Russian invasion, people can conclude that he has a principled opposition to imperialism, in all its forms, no matter who is doing it.
Also being ready with points to counter red baiting; the USSR wasn't left wing - Stalin and Lenin killed more peasants and socialists than anyone etc.
The consistent advocacy that comes from thought-out, principled positions isn't emphasised enough. The left needs to make that more of an election issue. Just some thoughts.
NY State provides COVID antiviral therapies for 'people of colour' way ahead of 'white people'.
I fully accept that there's a strong component of social justice, in that some people of colour have less access to healthcare - the problem is it's very crude and unfair policy, and there are many (perhaps just as many in aggregate) 'white people' who have had limited access to healthcare. Notably they have been poor since the dawn of time, their ancestors 'serfs' for thousands of years, and now they are directly and actively discriminated against by their governments.
A 8-question form about 'health history and health coverage' would probably provide a really good - and fair - basis for access to antivirals, that would get those with 'historical limited access' they help they need. No doubt, people of colour would be more likely as a result of those questions to get treatment, but others would as well. That would be 'actual social justice'.
Cynically, a 'more fair policy' would not allow government officials to tout their specific reforms and programs targeting minorities to placate loud voices, and to tout their 'social justice credibility'.
This is one small example, there are many.
Not only that, casual crude bigotry against whites has become fundamentally acceptable.
There were 4 major publications including Forbes (unexpected) and the Guardian (expected) that lamented 'Will Smith's Slap' was really a problem of 'White Supremacy' - effectively indicting 'Whiteness' as the cause of all of this malaise.
This is ridiculous, anti-intellectual post-modern rubbish. Total bigotry - published in 'respectable' outlets, being passed of ass legitimate - and it's almost a daily occurrence.
'Classical' systematic (and even institutional racism) against people of colour obviously exists, but there is also obviously a war going on with cheating and 'Magical Bigoted Thinking' around every corner.
It's very obvious that some 'talking heads' seeking validation, fame, clicks and relevance make poor arguments in the name of something.
Since at least parts of the Left have gone 'post modern bullshit race war', by blaming literally everything including 'Oscar Slaps' on 'White Supremacy' - it's hard for anyone to keep up and stay on top of the clicks. Jon Stewart has to up his own 'magical thinking' in order to stir the pot.
The same thing can be seen on the 'other side' as Tucker Carlson has entered a bizarre 'Twilight Zone Reality' with his recent conspiratorial and insane rants about Putin's justification for war in Ukraine.
If you were to have shown 2022 Pro-Putin Tucker Carlson, and he Guardian rant faulting 'White Supremacy' for 'Will Smiths Oscar Slap', or any of Trump's Tweets to anyone from 2010 - nobody would have believed it'd be real.
Commercialized press, need for substack subs, huge pressure for ratings, etc pushes the system 'outward' in terms of opinions and makes the system toxic.
So try to contextualize almost everything in that whirlwind.
Take Europe: they have even more extreme political dialogue (they have actual Nazis there, not fake American ones, and they have actual Communist parties in almost every country, that get votes!) - but their population is not caught up in pop-culture wars, particularly about race. Admittedly, without a history of slavery in the same way that America has, it's going to be less sensitive. But they are far less nuts about most of these issues, at least on the Continent.
It's absurd not to be at least fairly cynical about the words of talking heads of any kind in the US these days, and any institution with a public facing element.
They are all subject to it. Take your 'favourite person' - and watch them fall into the cracks as they have to put up content incessantly, have a guest or opinion on a daily basis, that gets them the attention. That is a systematic problem inflaming all others.
I thought this was hyperbole, but you were not kidding!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/white-...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maiahoskin/2022/03/28/while-wer...
This is absolutely asinine!
Those are academic, rhetorical arguments that belong on campus, not in the commons as acceptable viewpoints.
What's sinister about such writing is that it appeals directly to the inner bigotry of those reading it, for the same reasons that Trump's 'ugly Tweets' do, though the writers have the intelligence to grasp that, they refuse to have the self awareness to concede that reality.
It's just mostly unfounded bigotry, that appeals to the 'Inner Orc' in everyone.
They (meaning everyone) usually get away with it because of the 'kernel of truth' i.e 'white people' do disproportionately have power, or, 'illegal aliens are technically more likely to be involved in certain kinds of crime', which becomes more apparent if it was on the 'evening news' etc..
It's like Tucker Carlson's rehashing of Putin's cries about 'NATO expansion' - that's a 'kernel of truth' that covers the other, clear and obvious motivations for war which are purely Imperialist. Though 'NATO expansion' is not an appeal to bigotry at least, paradoxically, Putin's more broad indications are: Ukranians are not really a people, and they are 'little Russians' to be subject to rule by Russians.
Right. But the problem is:
1) when that rule wasn’t followed initially, it creates an unequal playing field that can take generations to undo.
2) not everyone thinks that way.
It would be nice to just say: starting today no more bigotry against anyone for any reason, but that only works on paper.
But the problem is that actions to 'rehabilitate society using racial/gender lense' is just an excuse to bring out and institutionalize the casual bigotry of the ostensibly offended.
Examples abound.
Probably the only way to allow for such an approach to be taken is if there were constant oversight, and required 'sunset' in the clauses such that the rules had to be automatically rescinded after a period of time.
Aka: "UCLA has a diversity problem in the Business Program, so they're going to focus on bringing XYZ groups into the fold. This program is subject to oversight by outside 3rd party governance body, to which we must provide the data on the program that they request. After 3 years, the program must be sunset, and an after action report will be written by the independent oversight board"
If I were King, I would probably support those kinds of programs, even the slightly more radical ones knowing that at least there is oversight, data, that it can get shut down, and no matter what it will 'time out' eventually.
There are plenty of well intentioned people and programs too though that aren't driven by bigotry.
> Probably the only way to allow for such an approach to be taken is if there were constant oversight, and required 'sunset' in the clauses such that the rules had to be automatically rescinded after a period of time.
That sounds like an interesting proposal.
2 questions:
1) What happens if you're 1 year into a 3 year program and see that it's veering off course? Maybe folks are gaming the system, or there's a flaw in the program that's limiting its effectiveness. Do you still have the ability to change the program dynamics? Would version 2 only get a 2 year run then?
2) What does the 3rd party have the authority to do? Can they shut down the program or mandate changes? What's to stop activists at an organization from re-running a program even if it got a negative report from a 3rd party?
Right so NOW we should have meritocracy? You're a little late to the debate.