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Comment by valcron1000 | Hacker News Reader

Yet another middle man stating that crypto is not the way to go. Of course they are going to say that, they lose their 1% transaction fee.

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Things is, companies like this solve a real world problem for real people in developing countries now. At least where I am, Colombia, crypto has utterly failed to do this. The target audience of such products doesn't care much about some hypothetical ifs and whens of the future.

I live in Argentina and crypto is the best solution available today. I've tried multiple services like Paypal, Payoneer, Wise, Bankera, Paysera, Wester Union, etc. They all have the same issues.

Given some of the services you mentioned, are you talking about transferring money in and out of the country? In that case I might agree. It is a huge pain in Colombia as well. I was referring to alternatives to small cash transactions between people in the country. For which there is for example Nequi. Easy onboarding, no service or transaction fees, no minimum amounts, free cash withdrawals, instant transfers. Yes it is by an "evil" centralized corporation, but it works and has very high adaption at least in cities.

Indeed, I guess we were not talking about the same issue. For local transfers, sure, use whatever floats your boat: cash, digital wallets, bank transfers (I would not advise this, but whatever). Here we have several options for that, like Mercadopago, Burbank, Uala, Reba, Naranja X, etc. These are really good for day to day purchases, and you usually don't keep a lot of money on these accounts, so if you happen to have any issue is not the end of the world.

Yes, I could have been clearer in my original post. My point was in reference to, many crypto advocates saying years ago that these types of small transactions at high speed and lost cost are one of the biggest benefits of it. This has never materialised, instead the market has been taken over by companies using mostly boring technology. It might well be, that fear of competition from crypto has caused the traditional finance companies to move.

Seems a bit early to say it has “utterly failed.” Especially when Colombia is consistently the 2nd most active trading country in LatAm. And As Banco De Bogota is piloting crypto programs https://www.portafolio.co/economia/finanzas/banco-de-bogota-...

Not saying crypto has failed in all aspects, just in the use case talked about in the blog post. I don't see crypto competing with e.g. Nequi any time soon.

The project you mentioned is interesting, but I see it as something much more for the middle and upper classes. I know plenty of crypto enthusiast in those circles.

I tried Buda, which is mentioned in the article as partner. It has been the most tedious experience with a "financial" product I had in my whole life.

Utterly means “completely and without qualification; absolutely.”

You can completely fail in one thing, and succeed in another. Crypto people have moved the goalpost of what it is supposed to be useful for a lot over the years. Which is fine. Doesn't mean it has completely failed to deliver on some of them so far and the market has been taken over by others.

Because there are no fees or middlemen in crypto.

Never mind that it costs $50 worth in fees to send a penny on Ethereum, and I need to convert my money to casino tokens on some scammy exchange first.

You can use any other blockchain. Why pick Ethereum?

It doesn't matter, all blockchains work the same way. They all depend on middlemen to process transactions.

Not in the same sense. If I use Paypal for example, I can only spend my funds in whatever they decide I should be able to spend it on. They can freeze my account at any point in time, no questions asked.

With crypto, the blockchain is just the infrastructure and no one can stop me from using my money.

Sometimes I wonder if people defending this kind of financial services are actually users. Doesn't seem so.

Paypal is a legal entity and therefore subject to the same laws as you and me. They can't just do whatever they please. If they did prevent their customers from spending their own money or they freezed their accounts for no apparent reason, they wouldn't have any customers.

Transaction processors on blockchains are not infrastructure, they are businesses and they can absolutely choose to not process your transactions.

I regularly send Bitcoin txes for sub $1. I buy with 0 fees on strike. Strike supports lightning withdrawals, too so I can withdraw and spend with 0 in fees basically immediately.

Isn't strike a middle man?

Isn't the cost generally substantially higher than 1% if directly using the blockchain [depends on transaction size and urgency/timeliness I suppose]?

But yes, you are right there is a competitive pressure/force at work here.

Some of that cost is externalized onto the environment and future, much like we don't pay the actual cost of fossil fuels at the pump.

I just made a 400 USDC transfer. I payed 1 USDC in fees.

I regularly make 5 digit USD transfers with no fees at all.

But that's with fiat, so…

They're also instant (seconds, maybe single digit minutes between banks), but that's because I'm in Europe.

And you were at the whim of the banks. They could confiscate your funds, lose the tx, reverse the payments, etc.

You are missing what cryptocurrency is about. No banks. No middle man. No censorship. No do-overs. Personal responsibility for wealth. When a person says “but I can do x with bank” they have missed the entire point of the exercise.

And Bitcoin et al is at the whim of the government, example: China ban Bitcoin et al.

Governments can ban whatever they like, it is meaningless. Bitcoin exists. As long as there is a communication channel, transactions will flow. It is a simple thing, and cannot be stopped. Every network level distribution can by bypassed. It is by design.

Right, so here's how the government can easily crack down on Bitcoin - through non-digital communication channels: you get officers to pretend to be normal people, you give them Bitcoin for something you buy from them (legal item or illegal), or they give you something in exchange for Bitcoin, then they arrest you - take your Bitcoin on you, get a warrant to confiscate/search all of your equipment and take any Bitcoin they find or just keep the equipment if it's encrypted - as part of a sting operation.

So does your answer stay the same with the above scenario?

AntiBitcoin Death Squads. Cool. The kind of fascist future you imagine for society is exactly what we fight against.

Yes, my answers does not change, and we will fight to ensure such a future never occurs.

and I can't wire USD anywhere because my government confiscates any foreign currency deposits and only authorizes outbound transfer for specific operations of specific companies.

what you have is a financial privilege that you are not aware of.

> what you have is a financial privilege that you are not aware of.

I already said that I'm aware of being in Europe.

Crypto transactions also involve fees and middlemen (the miners, exchanges).

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