I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say, the filter indeed worked out. As someone with ADHD, I couldn't last a single day on a job like that.
I couldn't help but feel my soul being slowly crushed as I read further on their description of the daily activities. Needless to say, the filter indeed worked out. As someone with ADHD, I couldn't last a single day on a job like that.
I've been in a team that does this. I did appreciate the knowledge share from the expert the first month despite the fact it completely drained me. After awhile, I hated the whole thing and dreaded going to work. I get it works for some people, but I know it is not for me.
> on a zoom call
This would make this about 10 times worse. I wouldn't last a week.
Those grades and work experience were quite valuable to myself.
There are protected classes/categories that can't be part of the employment decision, but outside of those, the employer is free to set whatever criteria they want for the position.
If I run a plumbing company, I could say "all of our plumbers must have a computer science degree," and I can't imagine there's any legal reason I couldn't do that. I'd certainly have a recruiting problem, but not a legal problem as far as I'm aware.
So in the case of plumbers, if a plaintiff can show that you are hiring fewer women because women are less likely to have CS degree—then you would need to show a “demonstrable relationship to the requirements of the job” for a CS degree.
However, this isn’t an issue for software developer positions. A CS degree doesn’t have to be absolutely necessary to be able to perform the job, it just needs a demonstrable relationship to the job requirement. There is also already precedent that a degree in a related field does meet that requirement.
I mean to each their own, but companies - and fellow developers - need to stop forcing others into their way of working. Having One True Way of doing things is always bad. But yes, this may mean there will be a divide in your company / teams, where one part prefers solo work while others prefer group work. Deal with it. Compromise. Let the extroverts work on their own for a while, and the introverts do some pair programming, but don't go all in on one or the other.
This isn't just true with programming. If you like to do things solo, then don't become an airline pilot since they always work in pairs. There are plenty of other places you can work as a solo pilot. Airline pilots work in pairs because, for that type of work, there are advantages to doing so. If a company wants to "go all in" on pair or mob programming, there may be very good reasons for doing so and trying to have a split culture doesn't always work.
Thanks for both of your comments. The mob programming sounds like I would be depleted way to fast.
Culturally traditional management is biased to create the 3 struggling engineers scenario because most management strongly believes that people working on many tasks in parallel is peak efficiency. You see this manifest in places that run the Jira + PR feature mill. Staff that complete lots of jiras and have lots of green dots PRs in their GitHub profile are considered "peak performers"
The fortune 500 is littered with companies full of this anti-pattern. Less so each year though, because if amazing execution on digital transformation matters to the business, to the extent those 3 struggling engineers execute poorly, the competition slowly eats the incumbent's market share.
I love it and it's helped get momentum on things which would typically just sit there. BUT, 30 minutes is definitely my maximum for something like this.... even if we did something minor like make this meeting 1 hour long - I would dread it.
Context: we do have an engineer on-call (on a weekly basis) and they will respond to urgent sentry errors, but the above helps sentry errors with less urgency get moving without being a total buzkill for the on-call engineer to look at ALL of them.
But it does quickly lead to exhaustion.
To summarize: there are three roles, Typist, Navigator, and Support.
The Typist is not allowed to think. They are explicitly described as a "smart input device". For the most part, only the Navigator is allowed to think. They tell the Typist exactly what to type, and the Typist must follow everything the Navigator speaks, to the letter.
The Support only looks over both their shoulders and sets a 10 minute timer after which the roles rotate. Yes, every 10 minutes everyone switches roles.
When working in person, one thing this selects for is people with perfect vision. Elderly programmers need not apply!
Why do I say that? Well, I have computer glasses that let me see my screen perfectly even at my age. This applies to anyone over 40-50: if you don't have them already, I strongly recommend getting a pair of single vision prescription lenses tuned for your normal distance from the screen. Since I use a laptop, these glasses are set for a 20" focus distance. I have two external monitors (one landscape above the laptop, the other in portrait mode to one side), and I keep those at the same 20" distance from my eyes. It is glorious! Everything is in focus, all the time.
If we're sitting around a desk, it's almost certain that I won't be able to read what's on your screen, for the simple reason that it won't be at a distance that brings it into focus (probably much too far away).
Oh, and you may like dark themes and tiny fonts like all the young people use these days. So even if it were at the right distance I wouldn't be able to read what's on the screen.
Mobbing on a Zoom call mitigates the focus distance, but the dark theme and tiny fonts would still mean I can't see your code.
And webcams are supposed to be on all the time so your fellow mobsters can see your face. A nice sentiment, but two problems:
1. I can't work sitting. If I do, I fall asleep after a while.
2. I can work standing, but not standing still! (I'm no John Carmack, who can give an hour long talk without moving a muscle.) I have to move around in order to think and stay alive. So I would constantly be walking in and out of camera range, or stretching, or wiggling around on my Fluidstance balance board, or just looking out the window for a vision break.
A more delicate problem: Sometimes older people need to take more frequent bathroom breaks, and the timing may be unpredictable, especially for someone like me who eats a lot of fiber for intestinal health. Sorry, I may not be able to just "hold it" until the next scheduled mob break. (Apologies for the TMI.)
This whole thing is an ADA compliance lawsuit just waiting to happen. (And no, I'm not going to be the test case; I have no interest in working for a company with these practices.)
Drug your employees so they appear to be working the desired hours. I can see ethical problems with that idea. The employer should at least be dispensing the drugs for free as a "benefit".
That said, I would never want to join a company that has phrases like
> The mob disbands, either to sleep, or to their individual work
and
> [...] full 8 hours of programming [...] minimum expectations [...] additional time is expected to be put in
in what is basically their job description. Also, six to eight hours of non-stop webcam is horrible! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24718640
I went the other way. 42in 4K TV placed further back. Big font. Zero eyestrain.
The main trick is that you have to set up the TV in "Game Mode" to turn off input processing, and also turn off stuff like overscan.
Obviously this setup may not work in a office cubicle or other space-constrained space.
Works fine for in-person reviews in the time of Covid, the other person isn't hovering over my shoulder either. They can stay way back and still see what's going on.
Wildly different experience compared to mob/pair programming all the time.
ADHD medication is excellent from a patient’s perspective. The first-line ones are almost immediately effective. If you don’t like what they do, you can just stop taking them and try another one. In less than a year, you can try most of the known-working medications.
Even if nothing comes of it, at least you know. Knowing is half the battle. :)
If you think you may have ADHD, definitely worth it to understand more about ADHD and a diagnosis will help those close to you to understand your behavior.
And note: it does sometimes make you feel like cheating or something… you will have to arrive at your own conclusions. Suggest a good therapist to help deal with it.
Diagnosis can be emotionally helpful— they’re often done by neuropsych evaluation specialists but you should talk to a psychologist or psychiatrist first because evaluation is a few grand, most insurances won’t cover it if you don’t seem very likely to be diagnosed including DSM-V criteria like having significant life changing symptoms before age 12. The testing itself is a few hours of tests designed to push you to your limits for things like working memory, impulsivity, and reaction time. (I was waiting for the tester to say “Reaction time is a factor in this, so please pay attention.”) Parts got frustrating but not like Megaman frustrating.
Depression and/or anxiety are commodities in 80% of those afflicted, so that’s worth paying attention to also.
Your partner is worried. So shift the work/life balance to have more life with your partner. Trust the team at work to understand.
Diagnosis from other people does lead to prescription drugs being offered. If someone reading is using chemicals, please pay close attention. Some doctors attempt to prescribe drugs in increasing quantities. That is not the path to sustainable balance. Medications are useful in an ambulance or hospital, they do help in emergencies! But they're not intended to be used routinely for a healthy life.
Peer support is best. Finding humble, open-minded peers can be challenging. The CouchSurfing (now BeWelcome) community is very open-minded and humble. Many church friends are humble. Teaching from the Bible is a reminder of how none of us are perfect, yet God forgives, and shows grace, mercy, and peace.
Some companies try to force concepts like pair programming, mob programming, etc upon their "human resources". It works well for people who like talking & body language, but not for people who prefer reading, typing & listening to music. Personally I prefer reading & typing, and that's why I use Hacker News.
You're not alone, you're welcome here. Interruptions are OK despite the cost of context switching. Diagnosis is not needed, you've already found help. I pray that God will bless you with peace in your personal and professional life, and they'll all catch up to your high-frequency genius ideas soon :)
But don't stop with a diagnosis, get some coaching from an ADHD specialist. There's so much more to it than just attention -- emotional dysregulation, time-blindess, executive function impairment.
It's a whole thing. But with support you can cope with most of it. And most importantly learn to separate the condition from.your character.