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> With explanation in abstract that its easier to buy meth than pseudoephedrine.

People may laugh at this, as they should since it is an absurd situation, but this isn't entirely wrong.

Neither my wife or I drive and during the pandemic she gave up her license after getting an appointment at the DOL was difficult. Both of us carry US passport cards as our ID.

This has resulted in several situations where we've been turned down for purchasing restricted items like alcohol or drugs containing pseudoephedrine, particularly the latter, because a passport card can't be scanned by the usual point of sale systems. There are a couple of places in Seattle that are happy to accept a passport card but even at them it's sometimes been dependent on who is working the counter that day.

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Gotta chime in on this. Seattle (in general a great place) has some pretty horrible things re: purchasing alcohol. Idiot/mis-placed store/bar-workers who only want a state ID. My U.S. passport=NO. My U.N. passport=NO.

Freakin' weird.

Edit: I worked at Boeing for eight years, very often in a sec/reserved area. My passport was good there. Buying booze down the street from [Boeing] plant 2, no.

> My U.N. passport=NO.

I wouldn't blame a regular store clerk for not knowing what a UN Lassiez-Passier is, especially since it doesn't have the word "passport" in the name. But a passport, especially one from their own country, definitely ought to be recognized.

Weird. Even during covid when I was wearing a mask, I never got ID checked at a store in WA. It seems much laxer here than in other states I've lived in.

Not entirely unique to Seattle, in my experience.

Seared into my head is my experience of trying to buy alcohol in Boston back in 2009, when I was in town for a wedding. I had just turned 21 so buying alcohol was still novel and exciting. I had multiple bars and liquor stores refuse my valid Illinois license, forcing me to hand alcohol to my father to purchase, and find shady bars that wouldn’t card me. It was extremely frustrating to have to rely on such tactics despite being legally allowed to purchase alcohol.

When I lived in downtown Seattle in 2010 I had no problems using a passport to buy alcohol. (Unfortunately, routinely carrying around my passport resulted in me losing it, and replacing a lost passport is a giant pain in the ass)

Why not get a non-motorist ID card? Every US state has these; here's Washington's: https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/gettingidcard.html

I believe this is the key element:

> she gave up her license after getting an appointment at the DOL was difficult.

I'm not sure what DOL is a reference to; however I now many individuals struggled to get appointments at the Secretary of State (SoS) and that is also where one (at least where I live) would need to get a non-motorist ID. Same amount of frustration / time spent to get a non-motorist ID as it would be to renew your driver license.

DOL = Washington Department of Licensing: https://www.dol.wa.gov/

DOL ~= DMV = RMV

In Illinois, it's the Secretary of State's Driver Services office. In Texas, it's the Department of Public Safety, and your plates may be in one building/location and your driver's license/state ID in another part of town.

Maybe the most honest state is Missouri, where plates, stickers for them, and your driver's license are all handled by the state's Department of Revenue.

But why get one? A passport/passport card is a _better_ ID document in almost every way. State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist and we should increase access to passport cards

Except for the way of not being scannable at point of purchase machines that was clearly stated. So if the one point qualifying for "almost every way" is hitting right out of the gate, then it doesn't seem to be that viable of an option.

>State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist

State non-motorist IDs are some of the only IDs available to non-citizens who live in the US and don't drive

And, a government photo ID is required to get a passport. A state ID is very useful for non-driving citizens, as well as non-citizens.

Don't they presumably have a US alien ID (Green Card or otherwise) and/or a foreign passport? What other documents could they use to establish identity to be able to get a State ID?

My wife is foreign-born, but was in the US as a non-resident when our hearts turned proximity into much more. Since she was already here the whole application process took place in the US. It was just under two years from when we married until she had a green card. (And note that there is also a delay from being granted a green card to actually having one in one's possession.)

Foreign passport and non-driver's ID were her only options--and passports are a nuisance to carry around and a PITA if lost/stolen.

(And, yes, I think that just under two years bit was not by chance. They were definitely looking for signs of fraud and I'm sure they finally approved it just before the point where they would have had to issue a permanent one rather than a conditional one.)

>Don't they presumably have a US alien ID (Green Card or otherwise) and/or a foreign passport

There are millions of visa-holders who live in the US but don't have green cards. Carrying around a foreign passport for everyday identification is an absolutely terrible idea because of the risk of theft or loss. Losing a visa-containing foreign passport can necessitate getting an emergency travel document from your foreign-country consulate, traveling back to your home country, getting a new passport, getting an appointment at the US embassy in your home country, getting a new visa issued in your new passport, then finally traveling back to the US. The whole process could take weeks or months and cost thousands of dollars.

We are aware of these. The reason is: Because unless you get the "enhanced" version, due to the ridiculous REAL ID situation you have to have another card anyway. For me in particular, where I work operates a medical clinic in a facility owned by the federal government so a non-enhanced card doesn't get me in the door, but a passport card does.

For my wife, it's because she has even less tolerance for paperwork than I do and it's easier to just go to the pharmacies we know have their heads bolted on straight than it is to gather up all of the stuff and go to the overworked and harried DOL.

Would that not still require an in-person visit that they've already stated was not possible? I'd assume the state would require a new photo for a new ID at the least to make an in-person visit required. Probably need new fingerpritns as well (if that's something WA does).

Society wouldn't function if people weren't willing to bend the rules.

Not really sure what you're on about here. There's a time and place where bending the rules is possible. Attempting to get a government issued ID and not following the basic rules of showing up in person is not really one of them in my book.

Many Americans have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card.

Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.

The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.

That's true and all, but the person I was replying to already has a federal passport, which suffices for all levels of state ID.

Do you have any specific citations on that?

I find it a credible claim. There was a story a few years back which made the rounds that ... turned out to be a case of fraud.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/articl...

https://www.inquirer.com/news/mark-damico-johnny-bobbitt-kat...

That said, given frictions of obtaining ID and necessity of having same, I could well believe that this is an issue.

> Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money

Err, no they don't. At least not with any of the IDs I've gotten in California for the past several years....

Where can you get a certified birth certificate for free?

Yes, but you live in the People's Republic of California.

I'm next door in Nevada.

Scraping together the required documentation for proving her address was problematic. I set up the utilities, I'm the one that deals with them, they're just in my name. She doesn't like dealing with that sort of stuff and at the time most of it was done her English (she learned her first word of English at 43) would have added needless complexity.

Even the property records are problematic on that--we put our house into an estate-planning trust. The correct titling of the property has the trust and then both of our names--but the system only *displays* two lines. Thus it shows the trust and then my name, hers gets omitted.

The county in California where I was born charges $32 for a birth certificate. Most (all?) of the proof of address documents also require you to spend money. If you already have multiple utility bills in your name it's NBD, but if you live with someone it could be a pain in the ass.

Then a DL itself is another $40. A non-driving ID is like $30, although there's discounts depending on age and income.

All you had to do is ask for a free state ID card.

- It’s Federal law.

I don’t know why people keep forking over money for state ID. It’s a state government scam.

It can be quite a headache.

I ran into a guy online that couldn't obtain an ID, period. The only form of ID he had was a driver's license. His doctor pulled it (legitimately, but needlessly--there was no question he was incapable of driving) leaving him with nothing. Where he lives that left one option--get a birth certificate. The application must be signed--something he's no longer capable of doing. The only other route would be to show up in person at the right office--multiple states away, a trip that would be medically ill-advised.

Note that he's educated and not poor, this is purely a problem of the system not handling the oddball cases. That state needs to be clobbered with a clue-by-4, if you pull a driver's license you should issue the person a non-driver's ID!

We have also run into a problem. When my wife was naturalized a hyphen got inserted in her name on her naturalization certificate, it wasn't noticed at the time. Almost everything is in her name as intended but social security saw the hyphen and would not relent. Even after we legally changed her name to rid it of the hyphen they were digging in their heels on changing the records. At this point we *think* the Real ID stuff is going to work, but the virus interfered. For the occasional place that won't accept her expired ID we use her passport card. (She doesn't drive, there's no issue of driving on an expired license.)

As someone who moved to Seattle during the pandemic, I knew when you mentioned getting an appointment with the DOL that it was probably WA. I had to go out to Wenatchee (2 hour drive each way) to get my license because everywhere else was booked.

Yeah, many years ago my wife had a fair problem at a bank because the teller didn't like being presented with a passport. "Just bring your driver's license!" Hey, you've already seen and rejected her non-driver's ID (at the time the non-driver IDs didn't have expiration dates and the bank wouldn't take any ID without an expiration date) and here you can't have both a driver's license and a non-driver's ID. It took getting a manager involved.

Now, had this happened a few years earlier before she was naturalized.... While her passport did have the standard English labels it was mostly written in bird tracks.

> People may laugh at this

Not to spoil the joke, but the paper by "O. Hai" and "I. B. Hakkenshit" is satire--I would be absolutely gobsmacked if anyone is actually doing this.

The process described is true, but the authors are anonymous - and rightly snarky

Right.

Here's a copy of the paper, if anyone is interested:

https://maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/synthesizi...

My favorite REAL ID compliant ID to use is my Global Entry card.

A divers license or state issue ID (much easier to get if you get it before you surrender/expire you DL) is just a defacto standard in the US.

The people who check IDs for medications and alcohol are trained to check DL cards, not passports. It's not surprising that using an ID different from 99.9% of other people causes issues. Although my friend who was a student from Germany never had any issues...

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