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Comment by gumby | Hacker News Reader

> Does Fossil have a unique or killer feature that makes it a good alternative to git, other than "simpler to use"?

If you click on the link it lists a ton of additions to git. The first bullet lists "bug tracking, wiki, forum, email alerts, chat, and technotes" none of which are supported by git.

Then again, bullet 4 is "Self-host Friendly" (every git client is also a full git server -- after all it's fully distributed) and bullet 5 is "Simple Networking - Fossil uses ordinary HTTPS (or SSH if you prefer)" Pretty sure git supports https out of the box these days (though I don't use it -- ssh is so much simpler).

So yes, I would call those killer features for those who want them, and are pretty unique to any revision control system I've used, though some centralized sites have encrusted git with those features. Having them distributed sounds like a good idea.

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> Then again, bullet 4 is "Self-host Friendly" (every git client is also a full git server -- after all it's fully distributed)

Sure, for code. But fossil distributes issues and wiki the same way, which makes comprehensive self hosting much easier.

I suppose. Personally I don’t like this level of tool integration (I don’t like IDEs either); I prefer the pick and choose / best of breed / Unix approach.

what self-hosted, offline available, system do you use for bug tracking, wiki and forums?

Bullet 2, “Built-in Web Interface”, is also not quite something that makes Fossil stand out as opposed to Git, because most installations of Git come with gitweb[1]. It's not the pinnacle of modern web-design, sure, but if you just want to browse a repo through a web interface, it's perfectly fine.

[1]: https://git-scm.com/docs/gitweb

Yeah, in the case of Git, the web ui is very simple, as Git only cares about code. In the case of Fossil, the web ui is extensive, as Fossil stores all types of data, not just code.

As an interesting example, the very website in this submission (fossil-scm.org) is in fact just a standalone Fossil website, running as you'd run your own repository. Everything that is on that website, is something you get for free for each repository you use Fossil for.

Fossil is more self-host friendly if you're on a shared hosting plan, since it works via CGI and can be served via nginx/Apache with minimal configuration. Every git hosting solution I'm aware of requires a dedicated daemon.

> The first bullet lists "bug tracking, wiki, forum, email alerts, chat, and technotes" none of which are supported by git.

Oh, so systemd of SCM world?

Also, making moving out of it extra hard by embracing everything.

Fossil imports and exports git

https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/tip/www/inout.wiki

I’m not sure the “extra batteries included” line is very persuasive.

It’s open to objections: first, Github does this already, so it’s a solved problem. Second, lack of focus. Why would VCS experts be good at designing a compelling forum or ticketing system?

A more compelling selling point, which is buried in the docs, is the use of SQLite as storage. Apparently this makes it easy to traverse a commit’s descendants, which git struggles with.

> It’s open to objections: first, Github does this already, so it’s a solved problem.

I can buy the reasoning that it's a solved problem with additional software, but citing github specifically here is absurd.

Github is a SaaS, centralised, closed source and unfederated platform.

I can understand that you think they're a good service, but there's a huge difference between something like git (which is a tool and a flexible one) and SVN, vs a hosted service.

You can think of it like VLC media player vs youtube.

Sure. If you think everything centralized, closed source and federated should be replaced with something decentralized, federated and open source, then Github is unacceptable. Just note that these are not inherently features. They may at some point become useful features - if e.g. all closed source software eventually is exploited by monopolists - but that is a very particular viewpoint. Given the success of Github, it seems that many people don't yet share that view. So, if I were persuading people to use Fossil, I would try to focus on features that most people want. But OK, if it's going for a free software niche, then fine.

> It’s open to objections: first, Github does this already, so it’s a solved problem

No, you're misunderstanding the feature (or they don't explain it well). GitHub solves the problem on their platform yes, but not in the protocol (git) itself.

Fossil embeds that data in the repository, all the data is local. Fossil works perfectly with the "local first" doctrine, something Git also does, but not for everything around Git, that Fossil embeds into the repository.

Basically, Fossil is Git + GitHub but self-hosted and offline first. You pull down a Fossil repository is like pulling down the Git repository + all related GitHub data.

> Why would VCS experts be good at designing a compelling forum or ticketing system?

They don't have to be experts about something to make it good enough. For a lot of us with poor internet connectivity, the offline first doctrine is essential in a lot of the work we do, as internet can disappear at any notice. Fossil works much better for this, as I can still read the wiki and tickets when my internet drops, while if I were using GitHub, I'd have to results to writing my own code/use 3rd party software to get the same experience.

I don't find these arguments persuasive. My point was that if I want wiki, ticketing etc., I can get it right now on an industry standard platform. Yes, I get that they embed it in the software itself. So what? Suppose someone said "our new operating system includes a web browser". But I already have a web browser? "Yes, but we embed it in the kernel itself!" Why would that be compelling?

The other argument, that this is needed for offline use, is more meaningful. I don't personally think this is a big enough deal to be the USP. But sure, for some people it may be.

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