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Comment by colordrops | Hacker News Reader

I do want to argue that you should be vegan. The meat industry is very cruel to animals, and it is nearly impossible to source truly "cruelty free" meat despite marketing saying otherwise. Dairy is far worse, with cows kept in small cages, constantly impregnated to keep producing milk, their calves pulled away from them and slaughtered for veal. Eggs are also horrible, with egg chickens living miserable lives, even "free range" ones, and the male chicks being culled by being thrown into a grinder.

Furthermore, water usage, water table pollution, and greenhouses gasses from animal husbandry are a significant chunk of the pie when it comes to climate change.

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The happiest times in my life and the healthiest I’ve ever been are always when I eat mostly meat and very little of anything else.

I don’t care about the emotions of animals at all, and never will. I purposely show my daughter videos of how to slaughter farm animals to try to make sure she has a full understanding of what’s happening so she doesn’t one day realize what “pork” or “beef” means and becomes vegan. Her favorite food by far is steak.

I’m all for others reducing their consumption as hopefully that’ll drop prices so I can eat more meat and feed my children more meat. Which is the only actual end result people who advocate cutting meat consumption will ever achieve.

> I don’t care about the emotions of animals at all

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but humans are animals mate

>I’m all for others reducing their consumption as hopefully that’ll drop prices so I can eat more meat and feed my children more meat

You realize that to an extent, the reason why meat is cheap is because of economy of scale and government subsidies, both of which depend on significant/majority of the population to be meat eaters to exist?

So you desensitize her early to it before she gets a chance to be old enough to think about the consequences of her actions? Ok.

I don't care (much) about the emotions of animals either, but I also 1) don't have a lust to make them suffer and 2) think the farming of meat is destructive to the environment. If there are tasty, cheap, and nutritious substitutes for meat, I'd gladly eat them instead.

> I don’t care about the emotions of animals at all, and never will.

This comes across as proudly sociopathic. The line between the human animal and any other is arbitrary and blurry and about to get much more so. I think it’s healthy to understand your own body and recognize the importance meat has in your diet, and if that comes at the cost of the suffering of animals, that might be a price you’re willing to pay. But to lump all animal suffering together as ignorable is really a red flag for an empathy deficit that is worth examining.

Considering that you have no empathy for other living beings, you should look into Elwood organic meats for you and your children:

https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/

I'm totally for raising the bar when it comes to terminology like "ethically raised," but I'd eat dog meat if it were good. Why not?

I don't see the problem with this. I clicked the site actually debating getting some to try depending on price per lb.

You should read the whole site.

Yes, I did. I understand it's trying to make a point, but I don't care about eating dogs, so it doesn't really convince me of anything.

I want to argue that you should neither eat meat or an vegetarian diet, especially if either is produced through artificial fertilizers. As an Baltic ocean diver I am almost daily reminded of the destructiveness caused by farming, and I continuously witness the horror of asphyxia when low oxygen water get flown near the areas I dive, and when the visible-from-space algae bloom occurs. Artificial fertilizers is such a huge problem that practically every single fresh water lake in Europe is considered damaged by eutrophication. Sourcing food free of that is a major step to reducing ones personal climate footprint.

Eggs are actually great if you have your own flock of chickens. They work almost for free in keeping grass down without requiring fossil fuels or complex machinery. They are almost perfect in handling food waste, and they can reduce harmful insects and weed without using any herbicide or pesticide. For insects they are likely less cruel than poison, and do not spread the poison to bees or birds. They also fertilizer the garden in a very natural way. A fairly small flock can easily maintain the need of eggs for a small family, often producing so much that you want to give it away to friends and relatives.

A bit of an anecdotal but when the natural gas prices went up after Russian invasion of Ukraine, one food product that got hit hard was fresh tomatoes. Farming them during off-season is very energy intensive and so require a lot of electricity, which in most countries mean a lot of fossil fuel. Even if you use renewables, that is energy that would otherwise go to to displace fossil fuel. It is indirect, but fresh tomatoes is right now connected with fossil fuel and war. Meat is also effected, but analysts seem to argue that people can easier switch over to farm more animal feed than they can fix the energy dependence on Russian fossil fuels. People could stop eating fresh vegetables when its off season...

> with cows kept in small cages

I don't think this is common practice. My dairy knowledge is somewhat dated, but they they're usually kept in large corrals (possibly crowded) with many other cows.

They have to keep the cow in a cage or else she will look for her offspring.

No, they're not "kept in cages".

You may be thinking of the stanchions they're put into for milking, but they're only put in those during the actual milking process, which only takes a few minutes with modern milking machinery.

Usually they're fed something tasty while being milked... makes it easier to get them to go into the dairy barn.

It depends on the country. In the Netherlands they are definitely kept in small cages / stables during the winter.

I suppose in a climate that permits them to be outside all year it's a different story.

That’s a valid position. However the reality many people I’ve found will be more open to eating less meat than going full vegan. If in the end you reduce meat consumption, it’s a win

Grow your own meat or buy direct from someone who does

> I do want to argue that you should be vegan.

Tried it (by my own suggestion) as a supportive boyfriend for a week. Absolutely not. The food tastes awful and is so unfulfilling as well. Every single bit of it. Nice boutique vegan restaurants, homemade vegan, following highly rated recipes online, “you can’t even tell it’s vegan!!” alternatives from the store.

All of it absolutely gross and of questionable nutritional value, both overall and to men’s health especially but also women. I finally discovered, for example, the source of my then-girlfriend’s bouts of faintness and nausea: her vegan diet. Supplementing with vitamins improved things overnight. But something feels very, very wrong about that.

There’s also the type of person that tends to be vegan. I’m sorry but when the scene is filled with people who believe veganism, male feminism, effeminate traits, inherent weakness due to diet, and voting for Bernie is a personality trait, I don’t walk… I run.

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