Comment by Andrew_nenakhov | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Andrew_nenakhov | Hacker News Reader

Andrew_nenakhov

It would be so much easier for any skilled worker to flee Russia if various western companies would stop virtue signalling and stop this trend of cancelling all services for Russians. By doing this they feel good, but are actually helping Putin and his criminal gang.

I was ready for our criminal government to start building a Russian Firewall to hinder access to non-government propaganda for Russian Citizens, but I wasn't ready for EU and USA to help them do this.

Take Figma, these dumb fucks decided to stop providing services to Russian users. Whom do they think they are punishing? UI designers, who are overwhelmingly against war and Putin? Real Putin supporters don't even know Figma exists.

I had a personal firewall on ionos hosting (registered to an Estonian company, no less!). These dumb fucks sent me a notification that they are cancelling my server in a few days, so I need to move out. Thank you, idiots, according to you I only must have access to what government tells me.

The list goes on. Remember this: when some politician says, "stop issuing visas to russians", or company CEO "we'll stop providing services to Russians", he is unwittingly a Putin ally.

I'm sorry that this is the way that it is, but do note that the real reason for most companies doing this has less to do with "punishing" anyone and more to do with practical concerns like "how do we get paid?" and "how do we make sure we don't accidentally violate sanctions?" Russia likely represents a small enough fraction of most companies' users that it's cheaper to just stop doing business there than to keep adjusting to the rapidly changing political/geopolitical climate.

There are ways to pay for services. With up to 50% additional expenses, but it is possible.

I also did some research, and it seems that services without KYC obligations so not need to comply with the sanction restrictions imposed on specific persons, so this excuse looks to be invalid for services like Figma.

(And in the future I wouldn't trust any SaaS that unilaterally cuts off a whole group of customers by their nationality)

> (And in the future I wouldn't trust any SaaS that unilaterally cuts off a whole group of customers by their nationality)

Just to clarify, this is not what is happening. Figma et al are cutting off a whole group of customers by their place of residence, which is a completely different question, and one that is much less legally and ethically fraught.

This really hurts. I left Russia a while ago, have not paid taxes there since then, and otherwise have no connection to the country, but I still feel like everyone hates me because of my passport and my language. It seems we truly are the new Germans as they were around 1940s.

None of it matters right now. The current goal is to stop the war at any cost, and people are just trying to do something. I suggest we have a discussion about what we can do to help despite the (indiscriminate) pressure.

You're angry. I understand. No one likes having services taken away.

I work with Russians. I see accounts getting cut off or threatened to be cut off. But none of the firms are saying "we'll stop providing services to Russians". They are saying "we'll stop doing business in the Russian economy". Russian citizens are still very much using Figma, for example. But not in Russia, through Russian companies, using Russian credit cards. Conversely, non-Russian immigrants in Russia are also cut off. Ukrainians working in Russia are getting cut off.

The reason is the sanctions and the difficulty of complying with them. It's way easier to implement via geofencing, or by denying Russian-registered payment cards, than by checking users and companies against the ever-changing sanctions lists manually. And yes, many companies are horrified by the war and want to do something about it. Maybe something more than the sanctions require.

The purpose is to punish the Russian state and curtail its finance of the war. It doesn't really matter if Vasya Designer from Voronezh curses Putin and the war over tea at the dining room table every day. Putin doesn't care what Vasya thinks. So long as he keeps working, making money, paying his taxes, he contributes to the economy. His inner feelings do not affect the war. Even if there are many like him, it's unclear how they will change policy. 15 years, torture stories, and footage of crackdowns from Minsk to Almaty are pretty scary. They keep Putin from having to care what Vasya thinks, or how many think like him.

I know good people in Russia who can't leave and won't leave. It makes me sad, too, seeing them cut off, isolated, worried about money and their children. But it's the news from Ukraine that makes me truly angry.

Russians have had 20 odd years to do something about their government. I would argue that if you are a citizen of Russia, you are the Putin ally here by letting things go so bad. I understand that NOW it is a lot harder to reform the system or bring about any positive changes. This ship has probably sailed. The Russian people are now reaping what they perhaps not sowed, but have ALLOWED to grow.

You are really not the victim nor others the idiots. The world just is having a bit courage to show what they feel about Russia. To put it nicely - Russia has so far been tolerated.

I'm slightly puzzled by the phrase "Estonian company, no less" (I am an Estonian myself).

I think that instead of condemning Russians for allowing Putin's regime to grow, an Estonian like you should be a little grateful that there were enough democracy-leaning Russians in 1980s who had weakened the soviet empire so that the other republics could slip away and have their chance of freedom. Some took it, like Baltic states, some turned into classical sultanates, some remain a battleground. The Russians, however, had to bear with all the KGB apparatus which remained firm in its place, and after enduring economic hardships of the 90s were feeling they were cheated by everyone. So no wonder that an upsurge in oil prices in the early 00s helped to create a calm and positive atmosphere, where the gradual deterioration of the democracy institutions went almost unnoticed. And actually it was unnoticed not only by Russians, but by everyone else: President Buss was Putin's 'friend', Germany chancellor ended up on a Gazprom board, the Queen was visiting Russia, etc., all was nice and fluffy. And let's not forget that the real funders of Putin's aggression are buyers of his energy exports, and they do this to this very moment, on the 30 odd day of the war, even having an exemption from Swift cutoff just to pay for it! But of course UI designers can no longer have their Figma access, that would be supporting Putin's regime.

Regarding the estonian company - I don't even know why exactly Ionos sent me a discontinuation of service notice. I operate my business with a company based in Estonia - mostly to NOT pay taxes to Putin's criminal regime - and hosting was invoiced to that company, and paid with that company's funds. So how they even arrived to a conclusion that I'm a customer from russia is rather interesting.

It would also make it less desirable to move.

Besides the biggest hindrance of the emigraes is probably the bank account USD limit, but that is all Russias doing.

There are no limits for payments from Russian side. If not for visa/mastercard restrictions, Russian cards with RUB balance would still be available for payments abroad.

But yes, the current situation is that anti-government Russians are being actively strangled from both from within and from abroad.

I too would like to hear a rational explanation of how Netflix and Figma cancelling services to Russians helps Ukraine

It makes the situation worse for the average Russian. Happy people (bread and circuses) don't revolt.

And yes, a revolution in Russia is basically the only way this war can end without Ukraine making serious sacrifices.

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