Ask HN: How does one affordably eat without cooking or cleaning?

1. You may be overestimating the time you save. Eating out may take more time than cooking and cleaning up when you factor in travel and waiting. A bowl of cereal, hot or cold, takes less than a minute to prepare and maybe a minute to clean up. Our family eats oatmeal most every morning. We use an instant pot: one cup of dried oats, two cups of water, put the lid on and press the porridge button. The instant pot beeps when it’s done. Washing up takes seconds with a brush and soapy water. It’s hard to imagine that eating out would be faster.

My brother makes big, hearty salads by mixing vegetables with canned corn and beans. Prep time and cleanup take less than 10 minutes.

Rice is very fast to prepare in a rice cooker. A topping of beans can come from a can.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are very quick to prepare.

There are many cold foods that are quick to make. Hot foods can also be fast especially if you use heaters that automatically turn themselves off so that they don’t have to be tended, e.g., rice cooker, instant pot, microwave, toaster.

2. Cooking yourself is probably far healthier that eating out. Your health is worth something.

3. The discipline and initiative it takes to plan and prepare meals yourself will likely help you in other areas of life, similar to making your bed, keeping a clean and tidy house, good grooming, regular exercise.

There are meal prep services [0] where a chef will come drop off food for you each week, it seems like the prices are fairly reasonable for the first service on Google [1]:

Average service cost: ($58/hour rate)

Week of meals for family of 4: $230 to $290, plus groceries

Three hour minimum.

So that seems like a pretty good deal to me, as the chefs themselves have multiple clients so the cost is cheaper than hiring an in-home personal chef full-time.

[0] https://www.google.com/search?q=hire+cook+to+meal+prep

[1] https://weeklymealprep.com/boston/

Get in touch with why you are doing what you are doing, and what you really want. If you want to save money, you definitely can. Maybe you could think about what that money could be used for. There are plenty of other benefits to preparing food at home, too, cooking or not. It's more convenient, and more under your direct control. If you don't really care about spending less money, or you aren't willing to change anything about what you eat (e.g. sushi for lunch, Chinese food for dinner, and so on), just keep doing what you're doing. There are lots of common ways that people get their nutrients, though, without spending a lot of money, or cooking elaborate gourmet meals.

Do you care about nutrition? Do you need every meal to be a hot meal? Do you mind eating the same thing every day? I'm not going to tell you to eat fast food, but restaurant options span a wide price range, and you could start by being more price-conscious about breakfast and lunch, for example. And there are lots of things you can prepare at home that don't require "cooking," like toast, cereal, a sandwich, or a salad. I know plenty of people who, when they hit on their perfect salad or sandwich, wanted to eat it every day, or at least a few times a week. There's also a lot you can microwave, and not just TV dinners, but also steam-in-the-bag veggies, rice, and proteins like hot dogs, bacon, sausage, meatballs, and so on.

I don't know how old you are, but it sounds like you are single; do you want to have a partner? Kids? You'll need to at least be willing to wash a plate or wipe down a counter. Can you cut up a piece of fruit or a vegetable? Make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Instead of thinking about cooking, maybe think about assembling foods that you like (which may be raw or microwaved) into a meal that you like. If you don't like going to the grocery store, go once a week on Sunday and stock up. Or have someone shop for you.

I pay a housekeeper who does the dishes three times a week (and laundry and other tasks). This same person can also shop, and even prepare meals for you, which can be kept in the fridge and reheated. Some housekeepers who do these sorts of tasks don't also want to scrub your bathrooms, so keep that in mind (there's a line between housekeeping and housecleaning, but it can be blurry). It can be better to get a cleaning service once a month for that. But you can go on Care.com and find someone who is offering the set of services you need.

But also, think about the skills you want to have in life and don't be entirely utilitarian about it.

I'm kinda with you, cooking brings me no enjoyment, every moment is a burden. But I can't justify eating out/delivery all the time.

Aggressive minimizing is the best I've found. Basically only 1 pot meals and a dishwasher (two for pasta or rice I guess, but those pots can go in the dishwasher, even if it's kitchen sins). You can buy precut veggies and ground meat, chuck it in a stir fry with spices, use a bowl, spoon, and spatula, call it a day. Really the only manual cleaning then is the one pot (cast iron is great here because you can hit it with a metal scrub, quick and no thought even with burnt on stuff).

I'd expect all the groceries can be delivered without much premium (though I can motivate to get to the store most of the time so I'm not sure): onions, peppers, carrots, mushrooms, meat of choice, spices, basic sauces is 90% of it.

Also, learn to fry eggs and flip them in the pan. Removes the need to wash a spatula. Toast bagel, and the only thing to wash is the pan, and while it's still hot it's basically a rinse. Great easy breakfast/lunch.

What I can say is any cooking tool you do actually use, get it quality. If I use I knife I want it to cut easily, if I have a pan I want it not to stick and be easy to clean, if I have a cast iron I want to abuse it without remorse.

> As far as I can tell it's the most economically rational thing for me to do, as my income is well into the six-figures and so as I don't particularly enjoy grocery shopping, cooking or cleaning it's a better use of my time to work and pay as much as I currently am ($2700 /month) to meet my daily nutritional needs.

Are you paid hourly? If not, your premise is flawed. Assuming you are in the US, you are generally expected to work around 40 hours per week. Any additional time spent working is free labor. You're on salary, and don't qualify for overtime, so you won't be paid more.

The most rational economic decision you can make is to learn how to cook, and shop for ingredients that can be used across multiple meals you like. Learning to cook has additional benefits:

- You can prepare your favorite meal(s) whenever you want without having to wait for the restaurant to open, or delivery driver to arrive. - You can host/impress friends, family, and potential partners.

> I'm open to any ideas or experiences people have navigating early adult life in this domain.

Stop working so much, and start living a little!

I'm neither paid hourly nor salaried, but I'm kind of like a craftsman so there's a direct relationship between the value of the violins I carve and how much money I make. I'm a decent cook and can do so on occasion like you mention but generally prefer my craft to the craft of cooking and as the former compensates at a much higher rate than the savings of the latter the problem presented stands. I can just keep doing what I'm doing but exploring other options and seeing what people like you have to say to try to gain potential insight into a potentially better state.

Is it really that much of a zero sum game? Do you use every minute saved from not shopping, cooking, and washing dishes on your craft in a productive way that reliably earns extra dollars?

It is a zero sum game but the currency is not money, it is time. Those minutes you save not cooking can be used to do anything else.

The thing is, if you ever look at the situation from a financial standpoint, you'll always see the same picture: cook for yourself, save say 2000$ a month for 20h of extra work, or work an additional 10h doing your lucrative job and make the same amount back.

What about just eating simple things that don’t require much cooking? Like eggs - I eat so many poached eggs per year on salad. And I know this is a privilege for you to eat out etc, but I also think it’s not a good environmentally friendly plan either to have every meal brought by one person! I’m not judging you but overall it’s so wasteful; invest like 2000 a month more and cook simple simple food!

Or hire a personal chef! This would actually cover the cost

Are you keeping an eye on your blood test reports in annual exam? Eating out often can raise your cholesterol and perhaps seeing that aspect of your health gives you extra determination to change habits.

Agreed. I used to eat only organic produce and meat and focused on quality rather than quantity. However, I slowly became vegetarian and I am very happy with it. It's both cheaper and healthier.

> $2700 /month

Holy... Whatever you do, you're being fleeced. That's easily $40k a year in pre-tax income, JUST FOR FOOD?

For reference, I'm spending around $100 per month (in Poland, where food is a cheaper than in the US, but not hugely). I cook all of my meals from a couple of staples, such as brown rice, legumes, lentils, chickpeas. I bought bulk amounts of them to save money and trips to store. Add veggies (onions, garlic, tomatoes from cans + whatever stuff is cheap at the moment) and lots of spices to that. I usually cook a batch that contains 8-10 of 800-900 kcal servings (which I freeze) to minimize workload. Such meals usually cost under a dollar per meal, even if you include electricity and water costs.

Not healthy, but filling and cheap with no cooking and almost no cleanup.

- Protein powder + peanut butter + whole milk + olive oil this can be half a day's calories for about a dollar maybe two. Most cleanup is a mixing cup.

- Peanut butter bars "Nutty Bars" (frozen they are great) These are super filling and you can add them to any meal or snack, they are cheap in bulk (.25 each / 250 cals)

- Meal cups These are normally noodle cups but they have many variations. Cheap and filling. Add frozen shrimp (cooked) or diced ham. $1-3 per meal. Add hot water.

- Tuna packets Bunch of flavors pre-made or can + crackers (your choice) + mayo/sriracha

- Cereal (your choice) + plain yogurt + protein powder You can save money buying bulk. Filling and cheap.

- Noodles (your choice) + Kraft Italian dressing It's one pot, but it will last all week and you can add different proteins (ham/turkey/chicken from deli counter) as you like or just have it alone.

- Kids meals Anything for kids is usually easy to make and clean up. Nuggets, PB&J, Mac/Z, Pizza-ish items. Go crazy. Can be costly, but there's bargains like pizza rolls which can be bought in bulk.

- Cashews & other nuts. This may seem like a luxury item, but it's easy to add to other meals for protein or flavor.

- Gatorade powder (the kind you mix up yourself) This is unhealthy, obviously. But it's a cheap drink and has lots of calories. This is a luxury item. Drink a lot of water too that's filling and free.

- Metamucil It's filling and all this other stuff is really bad so have some fiber. It will help.

- Eating out The 'dollar' menu at fast food places is actually very cost effective calorie intake. McDonald's is actually pretty decent at this price point. Lunch $3

- Ramen If you don't get the cup kind, you can doctor it up with egg, meats, etc...There's tons of recipes one pot clean up worst case. Base setup maybe 300 calories for a quarter. All in, maybe $1-2 per meal

Without cooking beyond a microwave, it's possible to eat 2000+ calories a day for about $3-$4. Be smart and add some veggies (even veggie chips or V8 drink).

It's not strictly answering your question, but there's a middle ground between "cooking for 2 hours and having to clean up a devastated kitchen" and "eating out for every meal."

I have trouble getting the motivation to cook food for myself, so what has helped me:

* Try dishes that only require assembly. I am a big fan of these as a lot of them are also hydrating and enjoyable in hot weather. My go-tos are turkish cacık, chinese smashed cucumber salad, caprese salad, cold cut sandwiches.

* Have a good dishwasher, and only buy dishwasher-safe dishware.

* Buy more premade dishes. Salads, soups, etc.

* Premade bread has the lowest prep requirements of any starch, so rely on it if you need that (though rice and pasta are hard to beat on price).

* Buy more freezer food. You can store it for months and most of it IMO is still quite good. Favorites here include dumplings, premade meat like pulled pork, berries, veggies.

* If you do have to clean, don't be super anal about it. A little bit of leftover oil on a pan won't kill you and you're going to heat it up anyway. If you are already spending $2700 a month on food, you can afford to cycle out cookware earlier if it gets too beaten up.

* Still let yourself eat out regularly, especially if it's at cheaper places.

I live in a way where I spend almost nothing, even on food, because I like to limit my footprint and waste, so I mostly eat raw vegetables at low price (some groceries do that for damaged or very ripe fruits) or free (at the end of markets, I give a quick help to merchants in exchange of vegetables (I got much greens, peppers, avocadoes, anything basically), or I also forage fruits (particularly figs & persimmons), also rice to fill the gaps, sometimes I buy fish at a local fishermonger

I live in south-east of France, where the cost of living is probably similar to your place, and earn around 4000€ net/mo, fully-remote work, my total expenses are easily less than 200€/mo (no car, and very few possessions, most important ones are my laptop + phone for tethering internet and my bike), I can save up money for a house one day

I don’t believe this. Coffee is 2-3 Euro in France. 40 bucks/m doesn’t even cover morning coffee and pain au chocolate!

Food is very expensive in France.

You may find apartment rents in pap.fr. Very expensive around Paris greater area.

I own my flat and charges are low (30€/mo) + very low electricity consumption <10€/mo, cheap insurance (7€/mo), cheap internet 4.9€/mo (mobile plan and tethering)

the only food I buy is a big rice pack (30€/20kg) that last 6 months to a year, and sometimes I buy fruits at a grocery (low price because that's the one they are ready to get rid of), so about 5-10€ a few times per month, free at market, free in the trees. That's all for the expenses, sometimes I buy soap or a bicycle tube. Sometimes, for a week or even a month I don't use my credit card (free online bank as well). But you're right, I'm definitely an outlier here where life is almost as expensive as in Paris

There are tons of premade, microwaveable foods at any US grocery store. I like frozen burritos, for example. Some are quite tasty, some quite healthy. Optimize to your preferences. Cooking/cleaning effort is similar to delivery. Price is maybe 30% (that's a guess)

Delivery services add so much cost that I never use them. With trivial effort, I can stop on the way home, and pick up from a restaurant on the way, for half the price, and fewer mistakes.

Consider long term health cost. Are you eating from healthy restaurants? The consequences of a bad diet dwarf all the other costs, which is why learning to meal prep efficiently is probably the best option, long term.

SE Asia is pretty good at providing affordable food options. It's cheaper to eat a hawker center (like a food court in the west...kinda) than to cook for yourself, particularly if you're using western brands or ingredients. I can get a lunch at a hawker ranging anywhere from $3 to $9 Singapore dollars. Tack another $1-2 SGD for a drink.

I think there's still room to lower food costs in the west if you're willing to give up your storefront, as well as potentially find ways to automate your business and cooking processes. The "cloud kitchen" concept is a very interesting one imo.

It is definitely cheaper to eat at a hawker center than to cook for a single person, but one must be choosy. At least in Malaysia, many similar venues don't even offer ANY healthy options.

Almost without cooking or cleaning.

https://www.rogerebert.com/roger-ebert/the-pot-and-how-to-us...

So, let's say you want to make basic nutrition easier for struggling poor people. If you buy them a rice cooker (plus ingredients and recipes), will they 1) use it for cooking food? Or will some find it more profitable to 2) put it to other uses?

If 2, what is the most cost-effective, badfaith-proof workaround?

- do cereal or bagel for breakfast (or something easy like that with essentially no cleanup) : ~$3

- go to a deli for lunch. No drink, no junk. Buy whatever drinks and snacks you want and keep them at home. It's really easy to double your lunch cost with drink, fries, side, dessert, etc. : ~$15 If you do this at home with Deli meat $5, and still very little effort or cleanup

- Do whatever you feel like for dinner $~35

This can be done for half of what you are spending anywhere in the world. I've done it in Tokyo, Switzerland, whatever. My daily food costs were closer to $1500 / month.

If you don't want to put any effort into your meals then $90 per day is not so high. It's not cheap but it's not out in crazy land. What's funny is that the net cost of food is a small part of the cost. The people part of the equation is the largest part of the $90. You can probably lower your over all cost by hiring someone to prep the meals for you. You may be able to hire someone to shop and cook for you 2 to 3 times a week.

Someone commented protein shakes, and that's what I do twice a day.

Whey isolate + Greek yogurt + mixed frozen berries + oats. Add in avocado oil for calories.

Get one of those NutriBullets for easiest cleaning.

Of course you still may have to chew something for dental integrity... I chewer gum and had one solid meal in between.

Edit: ah yeah someone mentioned Chipotle. Great idea. I'm too cheap for that but if you're spending $90 a day right now, it's a huge improvement.

Affordable eating without cooking?

Maybe you are missing the assumption of a healthy meal?

If not, fast food is probably enough. MacDonald’s?

Probably you don’t want the dollar menu everyday.

In Europe we have grocery delivery and healthy salads and fresh meals in the supermarket. Some require micro waving, other an oven. So if you do the bare minimum in cooking (ie pop it in the oven/microwave) you can have a meal for somewhere between 5-10 euro's. They are off course not perfectly healthy, just like restaurant food they are heavy on salt.

not answering the question, but comparing with my own situation:

I cook all my meals during the week, and clean up afterwards. On average I'm maybe spending $270 / month for groceries and maybe another $100 - $150 / month for a few cheap meals out each weekend. I spend 1 hour or less per day cooking and cleaning -- when I cook something on the stove in the evening it's usually a stir fry where I can go from raw ingredients to eating something in about 20 minutes. I spend 4 hours a week grocery shopping, but that's mainly because I use it as an excuse to get some exercise walking to the grocery store - that habit is a relic of two years of coronavirus lockdown.

Compared to spending $2700 / month on food, lets round up and say I spend $450 and 50 hours of my time each month. Compared to that $2700 / month figure, my 50 hours of shopping, cooking and cleaning work each month effectively pays me around $45 / hour tax free. It'd be closer to $75 / hour tax free ignoring the time spent walking to the grocery store and back again which provides light exercise.

I don't love cooking but I find cooking more intrinsically enjoyable than many aspects of my real job -- while cooking I have complete autonomy over the work and working conditions, produce something that gets used and that I can see the value in.

Another way to think about things is "how much cash would i need to invest in equities to generate income to cover my annual food expense?". For $2700 / month and 4% real return you'd need to invest about $810k in equities to generate a return to cover outsourced meal expenses. For my expenses I need to save about $135k in equities for the return to cover grocery spend and a few outsourced meals. Then the next step is maybe "how many years of my life do I need to work to accumulate a portfolio that large". If one really despises cooking and finds one's day job reasonably tolerable, maybe that's a fair trade!

I really like this framing as it's tangible in a way I've considered overall expenses but haven't particularly applied to eating and cooking. I think it also gets at why I'm even concerned about controlling the expense beyond the feeling factor, as I can recognize although my after-tax hourly earnings is several times higher per hour currently than the potential savings, my income from year to year is variable, and so cutting this expense down now in addition to increasing my investments increases the likelihood that in the future I can continue to avoid cooking and cleaning without paying a premium against my time for doing so (eg. 1.2 hr of work to avoid an hour of cooking/cleaning I still might do but would be a much harder calculus for me)

I use Thrive ready made fresh meals (thrivemeals.com.au), I get one for lunch and one for dinner for 6 days a week delivered weekly.

It costs me about $13AUD / meal - so I could live off $26 a day, but I general have a banana / apple (70c) and a small handful of nuts (maybe $1-$2).

So for 6 out of 7 days of the week it costs me about $174/AUD.

I minimize these costs using microwave cooking. I cook my food with a MicroPro Grill. It takes very little time to make foods like chicken, eggs, roasts, cakes, casseroles, etc, and the surface is nonstick so you can clean up easily.

simple solution:

open face canned seafood cheddar melt sandwich seasoned with a dab of mayo and tomato sauce cooked in the microwave.

theres basically no cooking or cleaning involved and you can save on bread and cheddar by going off brand.

it easily works as a 3 meal a day solution, and if you want to get fancy, toast the bread first.

if you really need to, you could even strip the ingredients back even more and use strictly the cheapest stuff.

enough canned seafood for a 2 slice full meal is $1 at most general stores, and even just use american cheese or what have you if cheddar is too $$.

you can even make it without mayo and tomato sauce, if you dont even want to buy either of those every so often.

canned seafood, cheese, bread.

available. affordable.

thank me later.

:|

Cheap, healthy, convenient: pick __

Well, at least until the advent of mass produced general robotics

Chipotle chicken $6-9 across the US.

So you're saying you're spending $2700/month right now but cooking & cleaning for yourself would cost you more.

Assuming you are becoming more successful over time, eventually you will be able to afford it.

Move to Vietnam. The food is healthy and insanely cheap.

I know it's not a practical option but you could live like a king over there as a digital nomad.

Chipotle, In N Out, Chick fil A, taquerias, Wendys 4 for 4 and chili. 2 meals a day would run you like $15-$20 depending on locale.

Using Chipotle as a reference point as that is one of the least expensive places I order from and just had last week: On DoorDash my last order for one meal was $26. $19 for a bowl and side of guac, $1 service fee, $2 tax, and $4 tip. I could save a little traveling instead of ordering delivery, but that doesn't make sense due to the additional time that would take. So that would come out to $52 /day or $1560 /month which would be better than the almost twice that that I currently spend, but most food is more expensive than Chipotle, and I should have maybe also mentioned in my post that health is very important to me so eating a lot of fast food wouldn't be acceptable unless the quality was relatively decent like Chipotle. Maybe I just need to seek out more places like Chipotle that are on the cheaper side while still being healthy and rotate through them, as while that's still a fair bit to spend a month it would be a huge improvement.

I don’t think you should discount traveling to get food. What are you actually doing in that saved time? Food delivery is extremely expensive. It seems to be a consistent 30-40% upcharge even if you get discounts, which is a pretty large slice of your total budget. Assuming you do delivery for every meal, you’re looking at hundreds of dollars a month, which is a pretty meaningful cost to cut out. Picking up yourself is also a good way to get out of the house more!

Also, I’m not sure what you’re ordering, but a chicken salad is only $10.59 including tax in downtown San Francisco. So if you drop the very optional sides like guac, chips, drinks, etc., and pick up yourself, you could save a lot of money.

For example, when I get fast food, I just avoid getting soda. Easy health win, and I already have water with me so it’s not necessary.

You could even decide to buy only specific things at the grocery store, like a bag of chips or avocados, for a lot cheaper if you really get enjoyment out of those things :)

Another point is that you could eat less food, or get groceries for smaller meals. For example, bread and eggs are cheap but good for breakfast. That’s one less takeout meal a day. Lunch could be pretty light as well, and then you can use a specific $/day amount to keep you in budget for dining out

Chipotle was the first thing to come to mind for me as well, my pollo asado burrito today was $9.60, that fills me up for 80% of the day. I’d only need a snack more in the evening to feel full.

Ive been eating quite often the shake from huel.com, it's been great

Lol, you really need to learn to cook man.

Marry a chef!!!