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Comment by Daneel_ | Hacker News Reader

On the GIF/JIF debate:

Every word (except gin) that starts with G, then a vowel, then an F, is pronounced with a hard G. For example: Gaffe. Gift. Guff. Guffaw.

Most one-syllable words that start with G have a hard G (not an exhaustive list): Gab. Gad. Gag. Gal. Gam. Gap. Gas. Gay. Get. Gig. Gill. Gimp. Gird. Girl. Git! Give. Go. Goal. Gob. God. Gone. Gore. Got. Guide. Guild. Guilt. Gull. Gulp. Gum. Gun. Gust. Gut. Guy.

The word "gift" is the closest word to GIF, and it has a hard G. To pronounce GIF, just say "gift" without the "t".

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From the man himself:

  There has been a huge debate about the real pronunciation of GIF over the years and many users have continued to offer their own arguments.

  But in 2013, Steve settled the debate once and for all during his acceptance speech of his lifetime achievement Webby Award, revealing that GIF is pronounced with a soft “g”.

  “It’s pronounced JIF, not GIF,” the beloved creator revealed to the crowd.

While I ascribe a lot of respect and authority to the creator (Stephen, not Jod), the community that uses it now has (mostly) determined otherwise.

settled the debate once and for all

That's hilarious. The bulk of the debate happened after he weighed in.

Giraffix Interchange Format.

Or Geoff's Interchange Format.

Rumor has it that the SCSI folks intended it to be pronounced SEXY.

Well then since JPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, does one pronounce it JFEG?

> except gin

Gin is all I need to be convinced honestly, and where I come from that's a more frequently used, relevant word than everything else you listed.

I wonder if we should let "git" follow this rule, sometimes.

maybe you should put your thoughts into a gist :)

Git outta here.

not gonna lie I definitely used a soft G before learning otherwise

Global Information Tracker, so no

"Did you mean 'just in time?'"

I have a coworker who does.

What would Mel Gibson think?

Etymology wise it inherits that from the sound of "gen" from "geneva." Since GIF is a new word it can't inherit a pronunciation from a former spelling.

It may inherit it from the sounds of the words that built it: 'Graphics'. Homography is not identity.

Anyway: this debate risks being inappropriate in this occasion.

Do you have any examples of that being the case where the pronunciation favors that of an internal word over the natural pronunciation.

To reason in those terms, you should first define such «natural pronunciation» principle and rules. 'PGN', if made an acronym out of the initalism it is, could reflect both 'pigeon' and 'pagan'; it's "Paris German News", so the direction of 'pigeon' is the one. An example of an acronym: the last in 'OPEC' - which per se could be soft or hard - has to reflect that the C is the initial of 'Countries'.

The thing is, he named it. So he gets to say how it is spelled and how it is pronounced.

You don't call the Spanish exchange student "Gee-Suss", you call him "Hey-soos", because it's a name.

Nah, once it's out there people can do whatever they want with it, in the same way that once "xerox" became a common word, it wouldn't matter if Xerox Corp. came and said "hey btw it's pronounced as ZEROZ".

"I don't care what you say your name is, I seen how you spells it, yer Gee-suss."

Except that GIF is not a personal name, and all those meme GIFs won't be mad if we call them "jifs" or "gifs".

Names for things get lives of their own.

Similarly, I don't think it merits looking at similar words for the "proper" pronounciation. If anything, it makes sense to look at expanded acronym (Graphics Interchange Format) which still points at the hard G (unless it's Jraphics Interchange Format :)). But hearing it from whoever coined the term is definitely similarly applicable.

Still, I would reiterate, names for things that get wide adoption get their own lives, and we'd face an uphill battle to stop people from using them how they want. As long as we can understand each other, we are golden. And when we can't, it's not that hard to get back on the same page.

> If anything, it makes sense to look at expanded acronym (Graphics Interchange Format) which still points at the hard G (unless it's Jraphics Interchange Format :)). But hearing it from whoever coined the term is definitely similarly applicable.

This. I first learned what the acronym came from and assumed the G was a hard G from Graphics. I just assume anyone who pronounces it with a hard G learned it on their own.

> Except that GIF is not a personal name, and all those meme GIFs won't be mad if we call them "jifs" or "gifs".

Well, I guess you can say it how you want, but it still seems disrespectful to insist that majority rules over the inventor's wishes.

Can't you make this argument to just bully people you don't like?

If you get a majority of people to say "zzleeper" is actually pronounced "crap bag", then majority rule wins, right, and you must acknowledge people when they call out "crap bag"?

I just don't really see how majority rule should follow. I'm also curious to what extent we allow this to function. Is it just limited to names?

But "Hey-soos" is wrong as well ... Listen to it here: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+you+pronounce+spanish...

You make it sound like word pronunciations are logical, follow rules, behave similarly to other words that are close in origin or in writing.

That’s not how it works. That’s like trying to convince someone who names his son “Richard” how the last letters are supposed to be pronounced. There’s no amount of debate you could have that actually makes any progress one way or another.

Would you pronounce it “Grin-drrrrr” because you just want to normalize to a hooked-on-phonics view of pronunciation while using a language that is a crash-merge of proto-Germanic and French with a sprinkling of centuries of colonial cultural appropriation?

“GIF” is like a brand. It’s a spec; a proper noun. As such, it has a clearly intended pronunciation that was unambiguously provided by the creator. That guy is dead now, so he may not notice, but try honoring his intentions for a day.

Everyone who gets dogmatic about “I don’t care what the spec is like” just comes off seeming to me like old Englishmen who quite clearly intentionally mispronounce non-English words (except French, which they relish…).

It used to be that the only folks I knew who pronounced this out of spec were my parents and grandparents (because the didn’t know better and were computer illiterate). Now, somehow, we have rafts of people who have adopted the posture of my parents in the 90s with pride.

I imagine that the next 24 hours will see a lot of these sorts of discussions…

the word gin is closest to grin, maybe we should say gin without the "r"....

these arguments are really bad, there is no real rule to follow, especially for an acronym. Anyways...

this gent was a gem, a real gentle giant and genius.... these debates are like germs and generate generic retorts, lets be more genuine.... I hope you are getting the gist of this comment.

GIF is an acronym pronounced as a single word. Jee-Eye-Eff. Hence, 'jiff'. You can tell who knows what GIF means by how they pronounce it.

My SCUBA gear begs to disagree with you. So does my LASER pointer.

The pronunciation is intentionally odd. It’s a play on an old advertising tagline.

It was “choosy developers choose gif”

For those who don't know: "Choosy Moms choose Jif" (Peanut Butter) Obviously, they don't use that marketing anymore.

> Every word (except gin) that starts with G, then a vowel, then an F, is pronounced with a hard G.

No F in gin. Giraffe, no hard G. Closest word doesn't work for many reasons. It's an endless debate.

Thank you for this Stephen!

An argument of pure genius!

The word "wine" is the closest word to "win", and it has a strong "i". To pronounce "win", just say "wine" without the "e".

In Russian, it is decisively "гиф", with hard g, like gift.

But GIF is an acronym

So is ASAP, and there are people who say it as a word ["A-Sap"] as well as people who verbally spell it out ["A-S-A-P"].

Sure, but OPs whole argument was filled with non-acronyms, so IMO it's a bit different

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