Thinking that this is practical life and death for real people is heart wrenching.
Thinking that I am within five miles of a tank (as are many Americans; I suspect that outside of the U.S. tanks are even more proliferate), this is somewhat scary.
Every time there’s a video of one of these things being put to use, it’s invariably followed by “fuck, yeah!”, high fives or other form of celebration. But they didn’t just destroy a tank, they also killed the crew, burning it alive. In fact some of the crew may still be alive and smoldering at that very moment... War is war, do what you have to, but celebrating a killing is just wrong.
I think pointing out that weapons of war are bad is like saying that water is wet. However, comparing the power of destruction between the tank and the anti-tank missile launcher, both can disable each other, but the damage one can do to humans and infrastructure is just disproportionate - it's ultimately a moral good to destroy a tank.
I'm generally pro-peace in every single way. But I see a difference in celebrations from the people who are invading versus celebrations from the people who are defending themselves against invaders. One I'm fine with, the other I'm not.
As many others have already done, the people in the tank has a choice between continuing to follow orders, or going against orders and leave their jobs/equipment behind. I feel very little sympathy right now towards the people who are continuing to follow orders even if they are aware they are invading their bordering country.
Evidence? That sounds like an understatement to me, we have details history of the whole thing including communication with command and photos of the route the BUK took afterward going into Russia. Its beyond shadow of doubt it was russian military that is responsible for MH17
So it's OK to kill civilians, your own civilians, in a war, if it was started by somebody else. Good to know that.
Sure. And there would be no civilian casualties in Ukraine if its government didn't insist in joining NATO and cease to be a neutral country.
Being a citizen of an eastern european country that joined NATO, I can promise you that my and other countries like mine are free-er to do what they please than they would be if they hadn't joined NATO.
Please, anyone reading the comments of the person above, don't be fooled, this is Russian propaganda, whether the person above is acting in good faith is irrelevant.
That's not the point. It was an attack and civilians died. Don't pretend that some civilians deaths are better than others just because we, the good guys from the NATO, were just "saving the world" another time. Also, we can say Russia is not the instigator here as well, and they are just addressing Ukraine's lack of compliance with the Minks agreements and attacks to the Russian communities in eastern Ukraine.
> Please, anyone reading the comments of the person above, don't be fooled, this is Russian propaganda, whether the person above is acting in good faith is irrelevant.
I know, everything other that the official "free world" statements is propaganda. You may suggest the HN admins to ban my account, just to get a community with more plurality where only the official statements from the western countries are allowed.
The nearest tank to me is on display in Mezes Park in Redwood City. That's a good 10 miles off and the tank is early ww2 and completely non functional.
There used to be a private tank collection / museum in Portola Valley but I think the heirs of the owner preferred to have dollars rather than tanks so it's been sold off. It was a very nice collection while I lasted. The vast majority of his tanks were in running condition with the guns intentionally disabled. Not many people alive today can say they climbed inside a nazi tiger tank in running condition. And yet this guy had one in his garage, sitting there dripping oil, parked facing a working US Sherman of the same era, and a soviet T34 next to it. All run.
But back to the point, that was also like 15 miles at least from where I live.