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Comment by tailspin2019 | Hacker News Reader

tailspin2019

I couldn't help chuckle at this one.

I've known quite a few accountants over the years. Some fit this typical stereotype rather well, and others have been a bit more "dynamic".

However, they are notable in that nearly all of them have been some of the nicest people I've ever met, with very high levels of integrity and authenticity. Very level headed, high attention to detail, professional, knowledgeable and kind.

Obviously the profession does attract a certain type, but despite any negative stereotypes, in my experience their traits overall seem to be overwhelmingly positive.

I cannot say the same however for software developers (of which I'm one). Far more variability there!

I guess this is partly because there is perhaps a higher barrier to entry to become even a "junior" accountant, whereas any random blundering idiot who dropped out of school can become a software developer (n=1 proof: me)

:-p

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a higher barrier to entry to become even a "junior" accountant

I couldn't help chuckle at this one.

When I was in college, engineering was known as "pre-accounting" --- those who couldn't handle the math went into accounting.

This is not to say accountants aren't nice people but the math involved is what my engineering professors disparaging referred to as "kindergarten" algebra so the barrier to entry is really not very high.

He didn't mean in terms of skill or difficulty; he was referring to the bullshit one has to go through to actually be an accountant (certifications, etc).

Just like a lot of other professions --- only easier. Try passing a legal bar exam or becoming a licensed engineer.

I have passed the bar exam actually lol

Can't say whether or not it's easier than an exams to become an accountant. Bear in mind though that one needs to keep taking exams to maintain CPA status, whereas in law, we have no such requirement. Just have to keep doing (usually bullshit) CLEs.

In any event, any kind of licensure is more than we have to become devs, which I think is the main point.

edit: I see your point in another comment that one need not be a CPA to be an accountant, and that's fair enough.

Bear in mind though that one needs to keep taking exams to maintain CPA status

Nope, not in the USA.

Most states have "continuing education" reporting requirements which can be self study in many cases. Take an approved on-line class every 2 years and you're good in most states.

Also bear in mind that most accountants (at least in the USA) don't have any license or certification. Try practicing law like that.

I know of a couple CPAs who have mentioned the need to study for some test to maintain their credentials. What is it that they may have been referring to?

CPE (Continuing Professional Education).

Total BS to show you're still involved and interested in accounting. The idea behind the requirement is to keep accountants up to date on new tax laws.

As I said above, report your results (pass/fail) from an on-line class once every 2 years and you're good in most states. A lot of states will accept self study. This is nothing like the CPA test.

Note: I have a CPA in my extended family.

I think there is a bit of confusion between topics here.

Software Engineering as an academic topic can be very difficult; as a career, because of various factors over the last 30 years, it's anything but.

Accounting as an academic topic is fundamentally very simple (it's mostly about giving precise names to money movements); as a career, because of rigorous qualification paths in most countries, it's anything but.

because of rigorous qualification paths in most countries, it's anything but.

LOL!

Here is are the requirements to take a CPA exam in the USA.

   US Citizen, 18 years old with a valid SSN
   120 hrs of college credit or a bachelor's degree.

Note that your 120 hrs doesn't have to be in accounting. These "rigorous qualifications" are about one step above the manager at your local fast food restaurant.

https://www.ais-cpa.com/cpa-exam-requirements/

My view might be skewed - in the UK there are stricter requirements and several exams, and the same in Italy.

PASSING the test is what is rigorous. Just as you don't need a law degree to sit for the bar (in some states), the requirements to sit for the CPA exam are basic. But the exam itself is not a walk in the park.

Aren't there accounting disciplines that are all about navigating laws and regulations to find advantageous loopholes, legal or not, by which to maximize customers' profit with least risk, aka, creative-accounting? And its counterpart, forensic-accounting? I'd imagine that virus/antivirus battle would be very interesting and difficult.

Accounting practice of any type requires skill, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that it's conceptually less complicated than dealing with physics or advanced mathematics.

I've known a lot of engineers I wouldn't trust to do my books though!

Honestly, I have yet to meet an engineer I would trust with that. Nor did I meet an accountant I would trust with my development. It's almost like they are two different professions...

And yet all the accountants I’ve worked with have had to be able to prove their ability by way of recognised qualifications. Ie legally they have to have certain qualifications in order to do their job.

Whereas I dropped out of school at 17 after being on track to fail my A Level in Maths and yet I recently built an ERP system for a $100m revenue company. No one checked my (lack of) qualifications! (Nor did my lacking certain bits of paper impede my ability to do a good job)

I’m not as bad at maths as that failed A Level would have indicated, but I doubt I would have easily sailed through accountancy training/qualifications. Not for lack of intelligence but for lacking in other areas.

So raw “math ability” is only one element here and just focussing on that could risk minimising all the other skills required to be a good accountant (including organisation and people skills).

Ie legally they have to have certain qualifications in order to do their job.

No, they don't. Only about half the accountants in the USA are licensed CPAs. And you don't need a college degree to become one in many states.

Surely a degree is a qualification…

Nope.

https://www.ais-cpa.com/cpa-exam-requirements/

You're confusing SITTING for the exam with being issued a license -- it's the latter where you'll need a degree. The rules are set up to allow college students, who are close to graduation, to sit for the exam. The coursework requirements are such that a certain number of credits in Accounting must already be in hand, and it's almost inconceivable that any person meeting those requirements wouldn't be on the cusp of graduating.

How many states require a degree in accounting to become a licensed CPA?

Lots of lawyers are licensed CPAs without any accounting degree.

You need from 24-30+ credits of Accounting coursework in every state. No one is taking 8-10 accounting classes in college to round out their electives. 99% of CPAs have a business degree. Yes, there are exceptions.

I mean that a degree is by definition a qualification: a condition that must be fulfilled before a right can be acquired; an official requirement.

Hmm yes you’re right actually (although I’m talking from a UK standpoint). Maybe I’m conflating the legal requirement to meet certain accounting filing standards vs a requirement for a particular qualification (the qualification being the way to ensure you are fully trained in those standards).

However for companies over a certain size it would be very rare, at least in the UK, to employ someone without formal recognised accounting qualifications.

And for certain accounting practices (auditing accounts for example) then there are actually legal requirements around having qualifications from a recognised body.

So you’re partly right, but for all intents and purposes in the UK at least, there are de facto qualification requirements for working as an accountant. (I would say for anything more than just preparing simple accounts for sole traders or individuals).

This accepted minimum qualification level is not matched in the software development field. Even if “a degree” is listed as required, this can often be sidestepped by being able to prove one’s track record.

My comparison between software development and accounting was somewhat tongue-in-check anyway. I was really just trying to stand up for the accountants :)

I don't think ANY state requires a degree or CPA license to be employed in a job that may have the word accountant in its title; however, there are certain kinds of roles, with certain responsibilities, that generally require a degree, and sometimes a CPA license.

Nobody said accounting math is particularly hard so. Everything around it is. Once you fail to be able to publish SEC required balance sheets because those mathematically highly skilled engineers screwed up your books by ignoring every single accounting standard, you might come to realize the value of good accountants. Well, after those good accountants left, that is..

because those mathematically highly skilled engineers screwed up your books by ignoring every single accounting standard

Sounds like some accountant made a really bad choice in accounting software --- probably went with the most cost effective option.

Oh, the software is just fine! If your fancy engineers are picking, say, training as a cost item for, say, equipment when creating the purchase requisition you can barely blame accounting when they catch that too late. And yes, that works in all systems if you put the necessary details into the line description text instead of some field your ERP system is able to analyze.

> I cannot say the same however for software developers (of which I'm one). Far more variability there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity

Interesting!

However I’m not affected by cognitive biases, so this probably doesn’t apply to me. /s

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