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Comment by claudiulodro | Hacker News Reader

Maybe my experience simply isn't representative of the average persons', since before I was a developer I was a professional furniture maker and upholsterer, but the issue I have is generally not the price. Like, it's not a huge deal if a bookshelf is $200 vs if it's $300 since the cost will be "amortized" over a decade or more of use. Furniture is an investment in quality-of-life.

The issue I have, especially with online shopping, is determining whether something is cheapo junk. The quality of most online furniture, especially on Amazon, is so bad, and it seems like 90%+ of the marketplace is heavily "cost-engineered" (particleboard instead of wood, thin tubing instead of rails, cheapest vinyl available, etc.). Junk at a great deal is better than junk at a bad deal, but the real problem with online furniture shopping is determining whether something is junk in the first place.

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Fully on board with this. And a good reason to stick to retailers you know. But it's expensive..

I love 'real' furniture (and design) but it's expensive... Furnishing a small sized condo with DWR or similar quality or vintage/antique easily costs $15k+

It's worth it IMHO and there are less expensive quality options too.

There are some good finds like I have a coffee table from CB2. but have to look closely at the materials. Metal & marble. Solid __ wood or real __ veneer not on top of cheap particle crap.

Nice furniture actually retains value. Lasts forever. Can pass it down. I don't think anyone's Ikea Billy is going to last the test of time. But pieces from 200 years ago still sell at auction and some mid century originals go for crazy amounts of money.

Even though I make good money it's still expensive. after buying I spent like 2 years furnishing it fully.

The problem is almost no one can afford nice stuff upfront

and a recurring cycle of poverty

For instance bigger necessities: a nice pair of shoes or boots will last longer and thus cost 3x less over lifetime than cheapos.

But a large % can't afford the upfront cost.

IDK what a solution could be. Maybe all those online pay over 4 months zero interest are filling this need.

But still would need longer terms to afford something substantial.

Plus if those companies are making money it's from fees and debt. just reinforces the cycle with the added dopamine of ooh i get this for free today one click online buying

Interesting points. It is true high quality furniture can retain value.

I hope that if someone has a fixed budget, but can be confident they are finding the best prices, they will by definition buy higher quality goods.

We certainly could offer reasonable financing terms for these higher quality goods.

Totally.

I think your service could add value there in doing manual curation and better cataloging across. Like 'high quality' or search walnut veneer or no cheap fiberboard lol.

Crowd reviews are all gamed now it seems. i would be into some more sources of professional curation.

Financing in general isn't great. Not an easy thing to fix. Personally I'm into having it as a service for low income Americans through USPS. write-off losses or take them out of tax over very long time frames. A few $k with low or no interest + reasonable long ish time to payback would be life saving for a lot of people

Yes, this is a great idea, and something I have been thinking about. A clear risk of our site right now is decision fatigue. Some users we have spoken about wanting to be guided through their purchasing journey. I think you're right mass reviews alone won't do this.

We likely would use a partner like Affirm for financing. We don't want to emphasize it too heavily, but we do see it as an important tool in purchasing furniture.

If you do end up doing manual curation don't let the commission % guide your choices!

For my new apartment I'm working with 2-3 younger carpenters who's design and quality I really like. It is going to be significantly more expensive than the cheapest stuff from retailers, but still a lot cheaper than the overpriced "designer" furniture from big names. Plus I can customize everything to a degree to fit the dimensions of the apartment better. But I reckon depending where you are, craftsmanship has been completely driven out of the market.

I do fully agree with your point about a lot of people not being able to afford nice stuff upfront and often ending paying more more over the lifespan of the item. But I also think it is also an issue of consumerist societies where people rather want a 100 cheap things and replace them often, rather than 10 nice and long lasting ones.

Then there I think is also a matter of perceived value of especially furniture. I know many not rich but affluent people that don't bat an eye shelling out a lot of money for some electronic gadget or expensive traveling every other year but won't invest in a piece a furniture that could last a lifetime.

So we end up with either cheap mass produced stuff or designer ware for people for whom money doesn't matter. With little choice in between.

oh boy. the amount of real estate listings I look at (lotto dreams) that are many millions and filled with the cheesiest, cheapest looking, ugliest stuff that looks straight off the american furniture warehouse floor...

That's amazing you have a friend that will do that.

I recommend it for art too! Especially paintings.

It is a fair point. In making this site, I have come to respect quality furniture makers most of all.

I do think there is a place for cheap furniture. Not just as junk, but as a piece of a home when someone doesn't have the budget they wish to have. While there is a place for cheap furniture, there is not a place for overpriced cheap furniture.

I do also think that if shoppers can feel confident they are getting the best prices, then they might upgrade the quality of they are buying within a given price range. We just help them buy better quality furniture at their price point.

We do intend to add reviews at the product level that will help users discern quality. Where there is enough data, we can even gather interesting data like: what were the reviews of a given item at a given price?

Ugh garbage furniture is so annoying.

My partner and I needed a couch and narrowed it down to IKEA, West Elm, and American Leather. We decided that we owned too much IKEA already, so skipped that. We liked the American Leather but it cost 2-3x the West Elm and we doubted it would last twice as long. So we bought the West Elm.

It’s been terrible. It was defective from the start. They sent someone out to fix one problem, and that kinda worked. Another problem popped up and they paid us to just void the warranty and keep the couch. I’m so annoyed. I just wanted a comfortable, durable couch.

I keep thinking we should have sprung for the American Leather one… but just a couple years later we’re changing things up and need a different sized couch. If we got the expensive nice one we’d be screwed because who’s gonna buy that off you.

So it seems that once again I screwed up by not buying IKEA. Higher end IKEA stuff has a great price/quality point. Apparently you have to spend 5x as much to get meaningfully better quality from somewhere else.

Yes, even deciding on preferences, including time horizon, is difficult in the first place. I think rental models like Pabio (YC S21) will catch on for the optionality they provide.

I do agree that IKEA, which is vertically-integrated at scale, offers very compelling price-per-quality.

'So it seems that once again I screwed up by not buying IKEA. Higher end IKEA stuff has a great price/quality point.'

IKEA does state materials, and some of their more expensive items are made of real wood - so at least choosing simple items like a desk is quite straight forward

IKEA is a great trusted brand for cheap stuff.

You are not alone in your struggle with West Elm quality. This blog post describes the 'Peggy truther' community (of people surprised and upset with their Peggy couch): https://www.theawl.com/2017/02/why-does-this-one-couch-from-...

Oh my. Furniture does seem to elicit strong feelings. The moment someone decides their home is worth more investment than they have ever invested before is a special moment, indeed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/style/ikea-cabinet-hack-r...

Unfortunately the inability to easily determine the quality while shopping online, as well as the long re-purchase times with furniture, drives everything to be junk.

Anything you won't replace within 5 years means the same "brand" names and models won't exist next time you purchase so there's no incentive for any quality whatsoever, and the inability to determine quality is a classic lemon market scenario.

These are great points. The lemon problem is ultimately a problem arising from asymmetry of information. We are hoping to empower our users with more information to tilt buying more in their favor.

I’m disappointed that I did not source an older bed and chests of drawers, refinish them, and plan to keep them for decades.

The trouble is I barely had the time it took (single-digit hours) to compare new imported laminated particle board options that ship for free and then negotiate preferences with my partner.

Sometimes with things like this you can get lucky and find exactly what you want on Craigslist/Facebook but sometimes you don’t, and you just need a solution to your furniture problem more or less immediately.

That said I will never order any furniture from Amazon or Wayfair. Brand allegiance and avoidance is not always rational but my eyes just see junk there.

This is an interesting point regarding brand aversion.

We are also looking to add collaboration tools for partners attempting to navigate preferences together.

> I’m disappointed that I did not source an older bed and chests of drawers, refinish them, and plan to keep them for decades.

Yeah, I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who bought 90% of their furniture at a garage sale.

Depending on condition, half the time you can use it as is immediately and finish it later when you have either time or money.

Couches especially look brand-new when refinished by a pro. My matching leather couches (2x1 seater + 1x2 seater and one rocking char, all reclinable with cupholders) would cost about 15000 ZAR if I paid someone to reupholster, but about 70000 ZAR to replace new.

The worst of it is that price isn't even a good proxy for quality much of the time. I bought a chest-of-drawers for my daughter, chose one that looked about right and was about $350 - certainly less than a custom made piece but 3x as much as the cheapest option.

It was hands down the worst piece of furniture I've every encountered, never mind owned. It was like a stage prop.

Yes. Cheap furniture has a place. Marked up cheap furniture does not.

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