After reading about it on Reddit, I‘ve shown up to hotels and gotten 40% off initial price.
At Guitar Center, you can negotiate the price of guitars.
I’ve seen people negotiate a round of shots in NYC.
The world exists out there at a discount if you’re willing to ask for it.
If you're generous to others, they may be generous to you. If you're cheap with others, they will definitely be cheap with you.
There are a few that are somewhat innoccuous: New customer risk surcharge, automotive customer process hurdles surcharge, foreign customer customs surcharge...
But then there are the "5% surcharge to be removed later as a 'discount'", "Customer X 10% surcharge for extra negotiation and concepting rounds", and "Customer Y 25% surcharge for expected late payment hassles", and "Customer Z 33% surcharge for extra detail in the quote, additional project management, and expected scope bulldozing." They may feel they've 'won', but their extra work was priced in from the start...
That gave me some well paying, well behaving, happy returning customers.
A guy I worked with figured out that you can negotiate everything, and did. He'd get pissed off at the bank charging him an overdraft fee and sit in the telephone queue to get his £20 back.
He took a cab on a business trip to Dubai, and the cabbie kept the meter going while filling up. He argued it and got the equivalent of 50p off.
He'd negotiate agreements with brokers and negotiate absolutely everything.
He pushed really hard on the partnership agreement.
In the end it was just toxic and people were turned off. You don't want to end up in a long conversation every time there's something to negotiate. It also makes everyone think you're going to be difficult.
This is what made it toxic.
Pick your battles.
Most haggling/negotiating being discussed here isn't about getting screwed with an unexpected fee, but about getting a better price before purchasing a service/item. This would be an unexpected fee if the driver didn't disclose this.
Those cabbies are working-class people usually. They often have families, and need the extra money. All they get is usually a few extra dollars; which means a lot to them, but very little to us middle-class people, who would suffer no repercussions financially.
One could see the running meter as a form of a 'tip' or 'donation' - not everything has to be seen in the context of "being taken advantage of", which makes it very hard to live.
This is very different from surprise fees from banks and institutions, for which I can see how a person might feel taken advantage of.
Those ones piss me off the most, in this way you are rewarding cabs who do this and kind of penalizing the ones that don't. In that moment, I am doing 180 and no way I am going to give that person even a penny more than necessary.
Like dude I was a floor associate, not anywhere near someone who could change prices as listed.
Then, after multiple rounds of me insisting that the price was the price, my manager would come along and go "sure, we can give you a discount on that" and I look like a clown.
this. i've been turned off by people when i've seen them push crazy contracts and generally have always believed that mutually beneficial relationships are based on both parties looking out for each other's best interests.
you should never have to haggle over money in any serious deal, having to do so is what they call a "big giant glowing red flag."
Akimoto Suzutomo, a wealthy adherent of the tea ceremony, once gave his page 100 ryo (gold pieces) and instructed him to purchase a tea bowl offered by a particular dealer. When the page saw the bowl, he doubted it was worth that much, and after much bargaining got the price reduced to 95 ryo. Days later, after Suzutomo had put the bowl to use, the page proudly told him what he had done. “What an ignoramus you are!” replied Suzutomo. “A tea bowl that anyone asks 100 pieces of gold for can only be a family heirloom, and a thing like that is only sold when the family is pressed for money. And in that case they will be hoping to find someone who will give even 150 pieces for it. So what sort of fellow is it who does not consider their feelings? Quite apart from that, a curio that you give 100 ryo for is something worth having, but one that has only cost 95 gives a mean impression. So never let me see that tea bowl again!” And he had the bowl locked away, and never took it out.
Turns out that commercial transactions happen in a social context, and even when it doesn't come back to bite you financially, sometimes paying less has social costs that are far higher than what you "saved".
If the buyer displays the item, then elite of Feudal Japan will say "Poor so and so, they got taken advantaged of by a merciless nouveau riche. Make sure not to invite that person to our upper class parties. We may be poor compared to them; but we still have our samurai pride."
Edited for spelling.
In this case, the listed price is the floor price, even though the seller agreed to less in the end. The expected price was unlisted.
With tipping, the floor price is actually higher than the listed price. Someone might agree to sell at a lower price, but below that floor price, it brings great dishonor.
And yeah in my experience being generous almost always produces discounts for everyone. I’m not gonna post it but my take is: did you know that workers generally know they’re not spending their own money, but enjoying as much of their leeway as possible with money they’ll never ever get paid on the job?
Tip your waitstaff and bartenders and basically everyone who will accept a tip y’all.
However, at the Farmer's market, there is a lot of price flexibility on products.
It is an excellent life skill to be able to distinguish between markets where prices are fixed and markets where they are flexible.
It frustrates me to no end when someone doesn't understand the word "no".
> Oh, really, you're a small business owner too? Then you should know better.
Honestly I don't mind this. If a video card costs $100 and you're selling at $110 and someone says "I'll give you $50" and makes you devote an hour to the sale, they aren't worth it.
I wondered what I would do if they asked to search my backpack on the way out. My imaginary response was, "No problem. I charge a ten dollar search fee, which of course if fully refundable if you find I've stolen something. If you question my fee, it goes up to twenty bucks, non-refundable."
Alas, I never got a chance to follow through on this, but it was a fun thought experiment!
I just walk by and usually they don't say anything, or if they do, I just reply "No thank you," as I am walking. Only one time a receipt checker actually (literally) yelled out, "That's not fair!" Everyone else just turns their attention to the next customer.
But if a few people were in line, I would just nod and smile and walk on by.
I never had an exit checker question this (they were trained not to!) but I did get a few dirty looks from other customers.
Sorry friends, it's not my fault if you don't know the rules. ;-)
Even Costco couldn't detain me if I didn't let them inspect my cart. But as you noted, they could refuse to let me shop there again.
Of course it would be my loss. Even if nothing else, the membership is worth it for the olive oil!
Did you happen to score any of the 2020 organic Val di Mazara? I've been a huge fan of their Toscana year after year, but the Val di Mazara is something else. Such a delightful peppery oil. I hope they get it again in the next harvest.
https://kfor.com/news/man-suing-costco-for-670000-after-refu...
The fact that you think they don't have the right, even if you are correct, does not mean it won't happen.
If an exit checker ever did say "Wait! Stop!" of course I would be friendly and let them check my receipt.
This would be the simplest solution, as my goal was not to prove a point about my rights, but simply to exit the store in an expeditious way with the merchandise I paid for.
But they never did question me, so it was never a situation I had to worry about.
This doesn't happen very often but as far as I can remember I've never been challenged when I do it.
But what I find really interesting is: based on what I've written above, isn't it trivially easy to guess my skin color?
Those security devices are generally there to scare potential thieves not actually detain or prevent them from leaving, so your anecdote doesn’t actually show anything interesting.
Nope. Maybe it would be if I the reader were in a country where people are stopped exiting a store based on race, but thankfully the vast majority of the world isn't like that.
But many of the comments on here have been anti-haggling, which is another way to say "Anti-negotiation". The problem I see isn't negotiation but instead how the negotiation takes place.
Let's take this computer store as an example. If you're one customer and you're making a single purchase- this is a simple transactional relationship and it behooves the store to optimize against such customers.
But if you are a customer who has been buying from this store for 10 years and using them for all the computer needs of a small business, presumably they've built a relationship up, in which case the computer store should know that they're gaining a loyal high-volume customer- a valuable asset indeed.
This means they can negotiate on many things, price being only one. They could negotiate on a barter of services, or they could negotiate on a personal relationship that's built up, or they could negotiate on service.
A good negotiation rarely happens in a single transaction.
I for one won't even touch this shop unless absolutely necessary. There are tons of alternatives online/offline. Good luck with your business.
They have seen me before, and they will often give me a little discount or throw some new thing into my bag to try.
Maybe I could get an extra buck or two off, but I have it pretty easy as a software developer working from home.
Farming and selling at farmer's markets is hard work. If I don't get the very best price, I figure that's a little tip for them.
Of course if I were buying in quantity I might see it differently. But for the bit of produce I buy, I'm happy to pay for quality.
And I bet that if I needed a larger quantity, they would offer me a good deal.
Part of negotiating is building relationships.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I really enjoyed that strange grocery story. Just offering a related perspective.
In a farmer's market, they probably throw away half the produce, the margin is more in the quantity of goods than in the price, so it would always be better to try to get more goods for free than to put price down!
I don't think that any modern farm can sustain itself on farmers markets alone except when it's a hobby farm.
Everything not sold there will be sold to supermarkets in bulk. Farmer's markets are just a nice cherry on top where the margins are higher.
Put into that context, there is absolutely a bottom to the price it is worth selling at. If you are offering less than its value as chicken food, we won't sell. Admittedly, that is still pretty cheap.
Also, a box of veg that was made well and truly unsaleable by a day at market would be thrown in the compost to be turned into next year's fertilizer.
The place I worked had ~10 acres in cultivation and grossed $200 - 300k. Their kids have college funds.
The produce has already been picked; it's not like they can take it back and re-plant it. They will most probably just sell it in bulk to some mom-n-pop grocery store and head back to their farms. So you can score some really nice deals.
I did this when I was tight on cash for a month or two and needed to survive on the more bare minimum budget.
That is such an insightful comment; thank you!
And it's the best kind of negotiating. Not only do you get a good deal, it's a win for the farmer too.
I know many and they all complain about that rich assholes that do this thinking the food is just going to get thrown away.
Unless they invented some time-travel machine, it's impossible. Most farmers markets around these parts have similar hours: 9AM to 2PM or so.
So, if the farmer leaves the market at 2PM, where will they go? No farmers market is open after 2PM.
There goes your little theory.
Pro-tip: stop treating farmers like children who don't know what they're doing. You city people think you know it all, when in reality, you don't.
Can you please leave out the insults and adversarial style?
We try for respectful and polite conversation here, even when we disagree on something. That way we can learn from each other.
From the site guidelines:
> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Thanks, and I look forward to reading more of your insights!
Even if there is no price flexibility, the employee will often agree to sell you a cake for full price then give you a cake of similar value he was about to put in the trash for free. If they know you always tip and can convince themselves that their employer is also winning, they are highly incentivised to agree.
Sometimes people in a job like this will take the un-eaten cakes home, but in the end they can only find a home for so much free cake.
You clearly don’t know anything about how they operate.
You do know the vendors go to multiple farmers markets, right? You’re not saving anything from waste. Unless your particular farmers market is the last stop for that vendor, you’ll piss them off.
You are ASSUMING that I offered them less money.
You are ASSUMING that I somehow forced them to do something they wouldn't do otherwise.
Reality is, they themselves offer great deals on whatever is left. No coercion required.
And last time I checked, it was a free world: I'm free to take their deal or not, and they're free to offer me one, or not.
And by the way: I learnt of this trick from farmers themselves.
And the price flexibility increases as closing time nears!
As you can learn from @SarahTaber_bww, they're also the most likely to use slave labor because small businesses can't afford HR departments.
Also, "millionaire" seems a bit misleading here. A family farm that's passed down might have a million in assets, but that gets eaten up quickly when you count land, vehicles, livestock, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean someone is living like a king with dispensable income.
However, I'm definitely ignorant about the data when it comes to this, so I'll take a closer look!
My hypothesis is that if they’re big enough they don’t need to deal with the small quantities at farmers markets.
And car dealerships, especially the chains are absolutely not in the same bucket.
If you are a tourist in the global south, and you negotiate down the price of some craft/souvenir/whatever you are buying on the side of the road, you will be able to buy an extra cup of coffee back home, but the person there might have to stand in the sun and away from their family for 4 more hours.
Don't let the well-being of others all in the hands of "the market".
In the case of online goods they have a price X in USD because that is the currency the seller has / uses. They sell it to everyone at that price, they don't upcharge people who have to convert currencies.
Now, it is very well possible that those people will have to pay quite a lot for it, but that's because they buy from a seller based in a region that's financially better off and as such has higher prices in general, not because the seller tries to get as much as possible out of them.
There is little benefit to me in bargaining my way down to $25 - yeah they might think they've conned me, but (as long as it's not factory made junk) I'm happy to pay $50 for something that I like, even if I could negotiate it down to $25. The $25 saved simply doesn't mean that much to me in the grand scheme of things, but most likely does to them.
Source: I've lived in a developing country for long enough to work out how much things actually cost.
It’s not the tourist’s job to worry about the knick knack dealer’s finances. That’s patronizing, presumptuous, and shows a lack of boundaries. Unless you’re dealing with a beggar where a transaction may be merely symbolic, I don’t even see a legitimate opportunity for charity here. Even then, you could still contribute to entrenching poverty by encouraging a tourist culture that inculcates dependence on charity. Authentic charity and generosity are governed by reason, not sentiment.
It’s not like their economies are that dynamic and have the liquidity to absorb most of them with decent stable jobs.
We like to forget but it only takes a year like 2008 to remind us.
This doesn't discount the real poverty that exists in many countries, and I'm not dismissing that. But if you're seeing poverty in a tourist area it probably means it's ten times worse in the places where tourists don't go and you're not going to solve that by stressing out over whether you should feel guilty for haggling or not. It's not your job to solve poverty in places you visit and feeling like you should is more a case of "Western guilt" than anything else.
You'll have a much more lasting impact, and gain much more, by seeking out human interactions that are not purely financial, sharing your culture and experiences with theirs, than you ever will by buying tourist crap in every place you go.
There's also a few street vendors who don't overcharge, they're lovely and I make sure to remember them and go back. Not something you can do as a tourist though.
I remember being at a stall (I think it was in Istanbul) and picking out these beautiful scarves for some people back home.
They probably were marked up 500% from the local price but they were still super cheap, like $5/each. When the guy gave me the final price I rounded up and gave him bills in the local currency (it was probably an extra dollar or two USD) but the guy was just super super happy.
The extra couple of bucks for me was meaningless, but, definitely improved his mood and hopefully improved his life.
Plus, now, each gift came with a story to tell.
On the other hand, I bought a rug while there and did not negotiate enough and when I got home my turkish colleagues laughed at me :(
Sadly I notice some haggling tourism, people are being misled by blog posts and vlogs that the culture there is to haggle and that the seller respect you more when you haggle. I find that to be totally unsettling.
I am a local in a developing country, with an upper middle class income, I do not haggle, I give extra tips, my friends from similar income level do so too, some do for things I do not tip for. If you are a tourist and wanna have a local authentic experience you probably should match the behavior of the people of that nation with same income level as you not of the vast majority that can happen to be poor.
Also I won't trust diaspora colleagues, just like how Italians will always insist that the pizza you've ate in Italy was not up to standard and not a real pizza just a round piece of bread with vegetables on top of it and the real pizza is on mr mario's pizzeria in the luigi street in Milan, all diaspora of the world do the same.
As a foreigner you're going to pay a premium anyways no matter how hard you negotiate.
If you don't negotiate, that just becomes the "price you can get from foreigners", so the starting point gets jacked up. Soon enough it becomes the place tourists avoid.
I don't think he lost out as I legitimately had no interest in buying before he haggled himself down that low, but it was an interesting lesson in how far haggling can go in some circumstances...
I think it's honestly kind of infantilizing to assume someone who is selling goods for a living is going to be somehow tricked or manipulated into selling at a price they do not want to sell at.
Most cultures are not as direct as American. In the US, it's a virtue to save time instead of dancing around the question. But in some cultures, dancing around the question is a mark of respect. You first acknowledge that the seller has been generous and then ask them for further generosity.
Also the sales technique that seller used on you is called anchoring. The fun ones are the ones who disappear again and come out with a 'damaged' one that they can not sell but will cut you a deal on. That is usually the next step on that train of bargaining that seller was using.
Most things are not really worth haggling over. Big ticket items, sometimes yeah. Small things not as much. Also know where you are. Some places you are expected to do it. Others it is the sticker on the shelf move along...
Speak to a tour guide in these countries and he will tell you that many tourists from western countries that don’t have a culture of bargaining vastly overpay for many things that are marked up precisely because the locals know tourists don’t know any better. Even if they did, they would still make a profit.
People in the “global south” aren’t stupid. They are much better at playing the bargaining game than westerners. You are no match for their hustling. They will tell you when they cannot go any lower and will not sell for less than that amount. Even that amount is bound to make them a nice profit. It’s not like you’re fleecing them or coercing them into loss. They will not sell below what they can afford. Why would they?
If you want to be generous, be generous, but even generosity can be misguided and foolish, even condescending in its presuppositions (westerners often have patronizing views of the “third world”). Charity has its place. (Look at the effects of mitumba in Africa or free rice in Haiti for example of misplaced charity.) Ethically speaking, justice does not bind us to refrain from bargaining because there is nothing unjust about it.
> Look at the effects of mitumba in Africa or free rice in Haiti for example of misplaced charity.
It's far from being rude or inconsiderate—especially not "unethical".
The point is that due to the large different in wealth, the increase is "dramatic" for them, but probably neglible for you.
Why not make someone's life a tiny bit better by not pressuring some some small time vendor in a country with less than a third of the GDP per capita than yours into giving up their share of the wealth that tourism is supposed to bring. Otherwise: what is the point of tourism for a host country?
Imagine making 80k/year, paying $100/night for the hotel you are now stepping out of and then haggling with someone who maybe makes 10k/year over the price of a $30 hat that you would pay $59.99 for if you were to buy it in the US and that takes $5 to produce.
I personally don't just find it rude, I find it entitled.
Negotiating prices within "those cultures" make sense when the playing field is somewhat level. Don't exoticize and take advantage of it.
> You absolutely should haggle if for no other reason than to experience their culture a bit deeper.
That is just offensive. Go to a nice restaurant, enjoy their food, see a museum, enjoy the sights. Haggling is not at the core of anyone's culture.
Imagine a Thai person going to Olive Garden for the immersively american experience of tipping their waiters - and even that makes the tinies bit of sense, because at least in that transaction money flows in the right direction.
That puts my money to far better use.
BTW my wife is from a very poor country and she would laugh at anyones face for paying full price to a vendor. It doesn't make you "ethical" it makes you stupid in her mind.
I was thinking along the same lines a while ago. Then I realized something, please pass this along if you want:
No, they're not stupid. They just have money and they don't care that much. You're poor (or were and that memory lingers) and stressed out and they just want to relax.
By and large rich people are as smart as poor people and are on average better educated. If they're doing something "dumb" constantly, you don't understand their world, especially this Iron Triangle of Activities:
Time - Stress - Money
any activity is somehow paid. With either your time or your stress or your money.
Poor people pay with time or stress, smart rich people convert those frequently into money.
For some it's acceptable, and for others it's not.
If they now make a decent developed country salary, haggling in a poor country over 0.0001% of your monthly salary is probably not an efficient use of their time, but old (irrational now) habits die hard.
Perhaps just worry about how you spend your money and stop projecting morality onto other people whose circumstances and needs you know nothing about.
I think the circumstances "tourist haggling with vendor" and needs "tourist wants to experice other culture" where very well established. Whether or not I know anything about this, is an assumption that you are making without knowing anything about me.
Of course how and why and where money is spent is stock-full of morality and ethics. That's not an idea that I privately came up with myself.
Can you point me to the cultures where not haggling caused offense?
None of that is as simple as it sounds. "I want the best price" is not knowing what you want, it's requesting a 5% discount that patronizes you. Asking for what you want doesn't mean "give me X for $Y", it means building a rapport with the seller first, and usually negotiating over multiple items to get a positive-sum result. And being willing to walk away is really hard if you don't research, build up alternate options, and are genuinely OK with throwing what may be hours, days, weeks on the negotiation in favor of your alternative.
If someone gives you a huge discount just because you strolled up and immediately asked for it, honestly, it's not that you're a good negotiator, it's more likely that they're a bad negotiator, and by sheer virtue of even trying, you have exposed their lack of skill. You shouldn't consider that to be typical.
I don't fully agree with you, I've gotten good discounts on things that I was not willing to walk away if I didn't get it. I just bluffed and pretended that I did, but I knew that in the end, I'd still buy it at the original price. It weakens the negotiation leverage, but it's still worth trying to get a discount even if you know that ultimately if it fails you'll buy it a the stated price
It is probably part of "know what you want", but to state it explicitly, I think that having an idea of the actual value is also necessary. How else do you know what is a good price? You could negotiate a 50% discount and still pay too much.
They: how much?
Seller: 1000 USD
They: I give you 10 USD
Seller: Sold
Since there was no counter offer, the 10 was still way too high.
India is on a path to digitizing everything from all the mom-pop stores to the random tea-sellers on the corner of every street to even the beggars accepting payments digitally. Yes, India does have a financial infrastructure far better than many developed countries.
I have been on the back-end side of one such digitization effort and have seen the data. Everything that we do, or anyone in the ecosystem does to optimize profit -- end target/product are always those small businesses and the mom-pop stores run by the neighborhood uncle and aunties.
When I buy from the local stores, the small businesses, I try not to negotiate, even when I know I could have and everyone else does. I know they make a tiny more profit, and I'm happy with my decision. If your help (maid, errand boys, others)[1] bought something and might keep the change. You know they kept the difference, but you just ignore it. It is a tiny sum for you but might just be dinner or different snacks for their kids.
I had my experience, and I don't want to be on the other end and be that smart-ass negotiator. My aunt helped me sell edibles during the Indian festival of Holi. In my first year (when I was 6-8 years), I was out-negotiated to reduce price and/or add more that I lost money in the transaction. I believe I cried, and ever since, wherever I can, I try never to take advantage of someone smaller/weaker on the other end of the negotiation.
1. India has a surplus of cheap labor. It is prevalent, affordable (and thus generate employment) for middle-class households to have maids around.
100% this. Sure, you CAN negotiate with the roadside vendors. But please, don't.
On the other hand, did you know you CAN negotiate the room rates at 5-star hotel chains? You definitely should :)
The one situation where I have had a lot of luck "negotiating" with 5-star hotel chains is when I'm already staying there and need to extend. In this case walking up to the front desk is more easier and far more likely to get you a good rate then enduring the hell that is trying to change your reservation online (Marriott, I'm looking at you).
This, just booked an hotel in NYC and on Booking.com was like 20% cheaper than the offer on the hotel website itself (where you had to pay in advance, while in Booking.com you would just pay at the hotel!!). I guess I could negotiate the full hotel price with the hotel, they are adding a ludicrous margin, but not with Booking.com (even if they are adding their good margin anyway).
I'm assuming "edibles" means something different in Indian English... Or you guys are very liberal when it comes to 6 year old drug dealers!
Edit: You got me thinking, what else was I selling. I kinda remember when weed not yet deemed illegal to grow locally (in India) or was I in a neighborhood with lots of them growing around. Seriously, I need to talk to my aunty.
Don't ask for a "deal", "discount", "best price", etc, ask, "Can you do X at $Y?"
Consumer Reports has a good chart you should scroll down and look at:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/08/how-to-...
Sounds like this is a perfect example
Mattress sales where all mattresses are half price happen pretty frequently.
The others say they can only do 10% or that I can't negotiate. The later, I just laughed and walked out the door as he was trying to get me to stay. I didn't want to reward that behavior. The rest, I just thank them for their time and wish them a good day as I leave.
This is also true of tvs and a lot of electronics.
But if you need a mattress and can't wait for a sale, then you do have to negotiate if you don't want to leave money on the table.
They sometimes actually do, but they aren't meant for haggling purposes, and are often only allowed up to a small amount (like say $20). They're meant for things like price-matching or resolving pricing discrepancies.
I used to be a cashier at a sporting goods chain store. No one ever told me, but I discovered I could give 5% discounts without an override. My team lead could give 10%. No one ever asked for a discount, but I would have probably given them if the customer asked nicely. Of course I could also adjust the price if the tag showed something different, and the computer did not request an override unless it was a large discrepancy.
don't try to haggle with retail staff.
There was no slot for the cue anymore, and no sticker on it
Asked the guy in Sporting Goods how much it was
He looked at it for a minute and said, "how's $5.97 sound?" (that was the price of the marked-down solid maple stick, this was a two-piece fiberglass jobbie (probably a $40-50 cue at the time))
I told him, "sounds great"
He printed-out a "replacement" price tag, and went to check out
I also have a suspicion that people even find haggling rude. I also think others are confused by it, like the choosing beggar subbredit seems to often just be bad attempts at haggling
But you are tangibly hurt by systemic discrimination. Otherwise qualified people give up their career choice to avoid harassment or because of inequitable salary. Then we are left with less qualified and motivated people staffed in important positions. Your work, health, or other aspect of your life are affected, just not in ways you can easily see or measure.
Of course in this era of ultra-sensitivity to racist issues, your seller's phrasing seems problematic. But the ability to recognize the difference in cultures is an asset, not a liability.
I get a lot of low effort people who want you to drive everything to them and pay bottom dollar (even though I’m very centrally located). Super annoying.
So you most likely are getting those responses because a large chunk of the CL buyers are in the market for prices at that level. A 20% discount feels like something you can get from the retailer if you just wait for a sale. But I guess, CL is popular enough where if you have the time to wait it out, you might eventually find a a buyer. But still seems insane to me that anyone would take that deal considering the risks.
Also, FWIW, there is no reason you can't counter offer in those cases. Considering the amount of time and effort it takes to meet in person, it is probably better that the price be pre-negotiated via e-mail before meeting in person. I certainly would never show up in person and try to get a lower price on the spot. The few times I have lowballed via e-mail (I was/am looking for a really niche item, and the only suitable listing has been sitting on CL for weeks) I got counter offered. It was still too high for my tastes, but the listing is still there so I might try again in a few weeks!
"$800 firm" means something. The alternative to "sell at a fair price on both sides" is "no sale", not "sell at a stupid price." I kept the camera and still use it instead. I was getting rid of it because it wasn't 100% what I wanted in my studio space, but it's fine (just not delightful) as a B or a C camera; 80% of what I could optimally do with a different model is worth way more than taking an extra $300 bath. Eventually I'll sell on eBay and get what I'm looking for that way--I didn't want to bother with shipping, but wasting my time with unserious offers makes that a lot more appealing.
(And we aren't even getting into the significant mental effort of engaging with the ridiculous set of scammers trying to get you to fall for their fake-Zelle-notification stuff.)
I do. Or used to. Then I kinda learned how it all works. If I had an item that could sell for say, 100 on ebay, I'd list it for 80 to get a quick sale without shipping. Then people offering 50 seem rude or crazy to me.
Then I learned to just price it high. So now, that item I'll list for 120, and 'fine, final offer' it to 80 and that works way, way better.
I think people just want to feel like they won, more than about values of items.
Another protip: Never list anything for free. You'll find the worst in society. List it for 5 or 10 dollars, then just tell the buyer it's free when they come.
So I could see a situation where most buyers with actual intent to purchase are only searching in the "Furniture" section. And the chairs in question might not have been nice enough to attract interest from the "flippers" in the free section.
Underpricing something is as bad (or worse) than overpricing it
If I think that chair is worth $50, and you're giving it away ... I think there's something wrong
If I think it's worth $50, and you ask $20 ... I think "he must not want it - this is a great deal!"
It is insane how true this is. If I put something on Craigslist for $10 that I was thinking about throwing away, someone polite will buy it within a week and show up on time. The first time I put something in the "free" section instead, someone sent me a legit hate email because they didn't like the item I was giving away for free... wtf?
Maybe we just set the initial price differently?
Do you consider that to be good faith negotiating?
And maybe you work with them on that and they’re like, “ok but I actually have a commitment tomorrow and can only meet at 3:30am and if there’s a waning crescent moon hovering above us…”
The demands get longer. It’s clear they’re not actually interested. They’re just testing their own waters and are time wasters.
I used to sell bicycles where everyone expects a discount. Not being weak I would risk them walking away. Typically I would explain that we don't have much mark up on actual bikes and would also point out that I had spent a half hour or so on them so they can get the perfect machine. I would also explain to them that next week they would forget the price and that in ten years time they would see the price paid as a bargain.
I would then say that everyone likes a deal and that I could do them lights or a D lock or a helmet. I would explain that he brackets for the lights or the lock can be a faff to get right, and that if they took my deal, then we would get the chosen extras fitted properly and now. Usually this was enough for them to get the free lights, paying for the helmet and D-lock. So, by not being weak and being honest about 'my boss killing me for discounting', I would get full retail plus the upsells and a loysl customer. Nobody walked off with this stance which was great.
Naturally we had mountains of the accessories offered so it would cost $10 - $20 in parts that cost less than trade price.
South Korea has thousands of traditional markets which have been slowly dying for decades - lack of transparent prices is frequently cited as a major reason. Few people want to spend time haggling just to buy a mackerel.
I am NOT a strong negotiator, I'll usually only ask if I'm buying a few things or my checkout price will be greater than ~$200, but just asking will usually be enough. "Can I get a discount" or "can you throw in some of this stuff for free." But even with that, I've been able to get plenty of discounts.
And that expands a TON if you add floor model/open box/dent and ding items. Almost any store will give you a minimum of 10% off on AT LEAST those items.
Places you can negotiate:
* Any car dealership
* Buying houses or real estate
* Renting apartments/houses not managed by multi-city corporations
* Music stores, excluding Guitar Center
* Guitar Center (somewhat)
* Mattress stores
* Furniture stores (that are at least on the level of Ashley furniture) or independent (so no Ikea).
* SaaSes that have sales teams [email them and ask, they often will give discounts if you have a better reason than "I want a discount" which is a pretty low bar. Like student (real student, not I still have my college address 10 years later), military, I'm a poor startup founder and can't afford the full price. <- I've used this a few times pre-revenue]
* Smaller software companies that aren't selling games (email them and ask, they often will give discounts if you have a better reason than "I want a discount" which is a pretty low bar)
* ANY place that sells anything used from slightly used to antiques
* Farmer's markets
* Boutique food stores (this one is kinda iffy unless spending a fair bit)
* Flea markets
* Dentist offices (the approach is different here usually appealing to loyalty discounts, personal hardships, or extra cosmetic type services)
* Mall kiosk vendors oftentimes
* Outside of the US any kind of vendor in a shop that is in a specialized mall (ex. In Seoul in the electronics district, there are malls full of small vendors that have similar inventory as everyone else, you can haggle a ton)
* Any independently owned shop that has most items retailing for >~$50 or average ticket price >~$100.
* Non-chain Restaurants (but I'd generally avoid it unless going high end because margins are usually tiny)
* Pretty much ANY store that hasn't "standardized" itself to death.
* Rental cars
* I could keep going.
Places you can't:
* National chains where the sales staff is minimum wage. Walmart, Best Buy, Target
* Stores selling small-ticket items (average purchase is under $100)
* Online retailers (outside of standard coupons, etc)
* Grocery stores
* Regional/nationally managed rentals.
* I'm having trouble thinking of other places you can't negotiate at least a little at...
The moral of the story is any place with a physical presence MUST charge a considerable markup (40% markup would be in the discount store range of markups) in order to stay in business, so if it is worth their while to make a sale they will haggle.
If they are selling commodity goods or small ticket items it's difficult to make it worth their while to even talk to someone wanting to haggle.
Despite the fact that the store in question usually has pretty crappy service and I avoid them, the customer focus in that interaction increased the chances that I'll go there again in the future.
(Why did I try if I normally don't? It actually started when I misheard the price they said, and I figured why not just roll with it and see what happens?)
We ended up with over 35% off a mower last year because the engine meter had more than .1h (6m) on it, along with some dirt and grass clippings in the mower deck
Brand new (minus 20 minutes of run time and some dirt) with all the warranties intact
I saved and saved to get mine in my early 20s, and assumed it's just the price you pay like anywhere else.
About 8 years later, went to same place for my wife and between age and experience I just said 'ah, sounds like too much we'll go elsewhere' and they nearly halved the price. Wish I knew that the first time!
However, don't overdo it. You're highly unlikely to get anywhere trying to negotiate at big box or grocery stores on typical items and likely just annoy the cashier. My brother used to get driven up the wall by people wasting time doing this - noting they were usually foreign people and that may have been how things worked in their native country.
My manager though would always be ready to wheel and deal on big items. He told me eventually they get bonuses based on monthly sales, so would do anything to get them.
Weird dynamic really. So basically you only might get a discount on non busy days when the store manager was in. This is probably why the whole 'Let me talk to the manager' stuff came about in the first place.
If a dealership sells an agreed on number of cars they get a % back on each car purchased, I've heard 5% quoted.
At the end of the financial year, they quite possibly might only be a few cars away from this, and it's a big deal. I was buying a new car, and they were adamant about sticking to the list price, so I walked. A few days later they phoned up offering a STEEP discount (25%), sadly, the one they had in stock wasn't the colour or spec I wanted, and I managed to get another dealership to cut almost as much off. But it goes to show - knowing who you're buying from, knowing how they make their money, and when they need sales quick, and crucially, being ready to walk away, are important.
During those first years they would have paid off all the equipment and sold the treatment to the vast portion of eligible patients.
Congrats for asking! I should try that!
They generally have a discount budget they can use on small items if you buy big items.
E.g, I got my carrying case for free because I bought a switch _and_ two games.
Got delivery and installation free because we bought a stovetop _and_ a fridge.
But it had to be negotiated.
The surgery was super quick, and I could see amazing right away. Then it all went away. I probably slept for 2 or 3 days straight... waking only to take a pain pill and sleep again. I remember looking at the ceiling fan each day and it looking clearer and clearer before my eyes hurt and said pills.
I could finally work but my eyes were super light sensitive and my resolution was trash. I was sitting in a room with no lights, sunglasses, and my laptop screen zoomed way in when I started back at work, and even then kept confusing minus for equals.
In short time it healed and like most things, I forgot the bad and am completely happy.
My wife got Lasik and could see perfectly a few hours later with no side effects.
I guess she doesn't mind that gross eye flap I kept reading about, lol.
In the end, we are both happy with our choices and would do it again in a heartbeat.
My vague understanding of the subject is that everyone just pulls giant numbers out of thin air to start the professional haggling conversation with (presumably) the recipient's insurance adjustment team - who will promptly bring things into the realm of reality they work within. IIUC if insurance is held hostage for a full amount (eg, workplace injury) it might end up a lot lower, while if there's an opportunity for recipient copay (eg, elective surgery) the insurer will punt and say "ok we'll just do $X" - even though the recipient may not realize they can adjust the cost down just as easily as the insurer can.
(I faintly recall reading about someone getting some random procedure done, getting quoted $10k by a doctor in a medical center, following up and going "?!?!?!" and being told by the receptionist or similar that the procedure was really just $300 or so (or similarly less). Something like that. The doctor simply had no idea so pulled a number out of rand().)
I think things started out trying to manage liability and lawsuit funding (and legal can generally be a giant price guide watermark hot air balloon...), but sort of accidentally got permanently associated with "oh that'll be expensive" to the point the whole thing just a self-fulfilling-prophecy-powered perpetual motion machine - and not just that, but one with an ever-widening margin between expectation and reality... that the powers that be are distinctly disincentivized to disentangle in any way shape or form.
So being able to assertively question medical fees, and do it Correctly™, is a definitely-useful skill, albeit one that is categorically tricky to learn (caveat emptor :/)...
If the waiter seats you somewhere you don't like, don't be afraid to ask for the nicer table! At the hotel, don't be afraid to ask if they have a nicer suite you can have instead.
Often employees are not able to negotiate the price, but they have flexibility in what they can offer you!
I have to negotiate this for every auditorium, restaurant, in-person conference, meeting. I'm hard of hearing so where I sit really matters. "Sorry, can we sit somewhere quiet/up front?" is never a problem in a restaurant or auditorium that's only half-full.
I guess a general communication tip is give people objective goals, not subjective ones, and ideally a logical explanation for why you need them, if it's unusual. If it doesn't cost them anything most places are quite happy to oblige, I find.
Of course, you need to be prepared that you might not get it.
Had Hertz (my least-favorite rental company) give me a discount on a substitute vehicle because I really didn't want to be driving a Suburban for the week (I'd rented a midsize, but they were out of everything but full-size SUVs). They knocked it down to a compact rate for the week (which, to an extent, I didn't really care about - it was a work trip, but I also didn't need all the space and hassle of the big vehicle)
Delta gave my wife and I $400 travel vouchers, rebooked us First Class home, and gave us meal vouchers to make up for getting our honeymoon return trip broken (somehow we ended up on different itineraries). This was right after watching the counter rep do the absolute least to the family in front of us that was extremely rude to the rep.
Just SMILING at the counter rep can make a world of difference :)
I used to get free upgrades at Dollar next to Bradley airport just because I smiled to the manager and his fiancee-then-wife when I'd come in and ask how their weekend was (I spent ~8mos flying into BDL every week several years ago - all but about 3 of those trips utilized Dollar for my car rentals): I'd book the compact of "manager special" rate, and always got bumped up a class (or 4) ...just for being polite
Depending on the debt, getting most of the difference between the legal expenses and the debt itself is in reach, given a creditor who is a rational actor.
(probability of recovery) * (1 - profit margin) * (amount owed)
today, for the right to sue on you behalf?
Note: I think the current debt collection system in the US is terrible, especially for medical debt. I suggest looking at the charity "RIP Medical Debt" if you do too.
At the very least, when selling a debt to a collections agency, the (re)seller of the debt should be obligated to first offer the same price to the person that owes money.
That seems reasonable at first glance, but it would lead to an explosion of people simply refusing to pay and waiting for the 'debt collector price' offer to arrive.
Suing people who don't pay their bills is a losing proposition. You will be paying lawyers and getting very little to nothing in return.
In the "of course that exists" category, there are services that give a score about somebody's ability to pay.
I really hate how every business process can be (and frequently is) optimized to the nth degree at the cost of privacy.
How much of a discount that's worth depends on the likelyhood of collecting after the legal process as well as how much of a reputational hit going through the process would be.
I wouldn't negotiate with most things after the service was performed (unless it wasn't to my satisfaction), but most services will have a firm quote before the service (sometimes that's legally required). A mechanic can keep your car until you've paid, but a hospital can't refuse to discharge you until you've paid, so they don't have the leverage to get immediate payment.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220318005244/en/Equ...
> Effective July 1, 2022, paid medical collection debt will no longer be included on consumer credit reports.
In addition, the time period before unpaid medical collection debt would appear on a consumer’s report will be increased from 6 months to one year, giving consumers more time to work with insurance and/or healthcare providers to address their debt before it is reported on their credit file.
In the first half of 2023, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion will also no longer include medical collection debt under at least $500 on credit reports.
What about before you undergo the medical services? Why is it so damn uncommon to ask for a price before seeing the doctor?
The main reason is that, often, the doctor is choosing the specific procedures after you show up, not before. There's not a price for "stomache ache".
For the elective procedures where it is known what is involved up-front, there is some price shopping that does happen.
Imagine choosing doctors like plumbers. Do you go with the one with the low initial exam fee? How about the one your family member recommended? Or the one with good reviews on the internet? Then, when they tell you the plan, do you go to another one and pay their exam fee to find out their plan?
I have some experience at this from the veterinary side. Some people do treat us like plumbers. They know there are several points of leverage in the pricing. However, it is a two edged sword. If you decline the plan and renegotiate it, the vet is liable to stop recommending the expensive options because you are more focused on money than health. This happens unconsciously. If you decline a $20 diagnostic after a half hour of haggling I won't have time or energy to try to convince you to spring for a $100 monthly treatment when an inferior but acceptable treatment is available for less. I'll present both options and you will probably choose the inferior one as part of your haggling strategy.
Haggling makes lots of sense when the quality of the commodity is not under control of the salesperson, it is easy to determine, and the salesperson pads your price with lots of margin. In medicine, everything is opaque and haggling is rarely able to take a broad cut on price without sacrificing quality.
Need a hip replaced? Having a child? These things can negotiated in advance at a substantial discount.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...
For costly things, it is better to cross check with a few stores to get an idea about the local price and ask what is the best they can do. You can let them know you have checked other stores, but don’t share the details of other offers. Sometimes, checking with a store over a phone call might get you a better deal, because yours is a zero effort deal for them which they don’t want to lose to a competitor and also, they won’t be able to read you like they can in case of an in-person bargaining.
I usually try to avoid who doesn’t show even a tiny interest in a negotiation. It is better to give business to someone who is willing to spent some time discussing with customer.
Being said all these, I don’t spend too time much on this to milk out every possible discount. It is a trade off between time/happiness vs saving money.
But part of it is probably also that I'm very easy going; I'm happy to take whatever it is he's trying to move, and happy to grab chunky ends or other pieces that would be annoying to cut, etc.
Feels like a lesson every gamer with a Steam Sale backlog could stand to learn.
The solution of course is to actively keep in touch with changing market dynamics. The last couple of years have had rapid changes through the shortages and inflation, so you need to consider todays value not yesterdays.
The number one tip I would give is to always consider the person you are negotiating with (note: "person" != "business") and try to reach a win-win. Make their job easy and maximise their profit/commission.
For example, if someone messages us on Facebook with some links to our eBay listings and asks if we can do a better price, the answer is always yes. We're happy because we don't have to pay eBay's cut of the sales (around 10% usually), the buyer is happy because they get a discount. If they're buying multiple items, even better! We don't have to pay for 5 separate lots of "free shipping".
Same thing when you pay a tradesman in cash. They "forget" to enter your transaction into their accounting system (no tax!), you get a better deal. Not everyone would consider this ethical, of course, but it's the same principle of tit-for-tat.
buying a car or getting a hotel room? not much harm can be done there
I have lived abroad since (including China where I used my negotiating skills a lot :) ) so I'm not sure how it is nowadays.
If a seller can't set a fair honest nominal price, in the expectation of haggling, it reduces my trust of them in other ways.
There are situations where negotiating makes sense, but often sellers should assume their list price is what they've negotiated.
By the way, guitar center doesn’t really negotiate much anymore. They tend to price guitar more realistically than they used to. 10 years ago you could pretty much rely on getting 40% off or so from the price tag, but they’ve trended away from that in the last few years.
He looks at me, writes a figure on a small sheet of paper and slides it over. I look at it, nod and slide it back, thanking him. It was almost half off their advertised rate.
Bonus: he asked me to park in the "employee of the month" parking spot, since that employee wasn't going to be working that night.
Everything is negotiable it's just that:
A) Most mortals do not have the leverage to open up a negotiating position (not important enough)
B) Most sellers at a front desk may not have the authority to meet you half way in a negotiation.
Negotiating for price still feels very weird to me in most circumstances though.
I reguarly will buy the last of something and end up taking the floor/display model. Usually for a 10-25% discount (very occasionally more on things most people wouldn't touch the floor model on and have a healthy mark up) on the price they have listed.
That and buying a bunch of things and asking for a discount are the best ways to haggle that I've found. If buying 10 things from a shop (not small ticket items or at chain stores with minimum wage employees) it's usally easy for them to throw in the lowest priced items as "freebies".
In many African countries, it is expected that you spend 10 minutes bargaining for everything: food, cab fares, etc., and it’s a thing locals do a lot.
In the US, there is a lot of negotiating too. And also a lot of “small bribery”. Things like slipping a 20 dollar bill to someone to get ahead in a line is extremely common.
In Europe it is much less common. Some things like furniture or cars are often negotiated, but the negotiation margins are much much narrower than in the US (I once got a carpet from ABC carpets in NY at 30% of its tag price).
I wonder how this changes across different countries. I know in India, there's a lot of flexibility in negotiation/haggling prices.
But living in Germany, I always get the impression that things are fixed price and I typically don't bother negotiating. Unless it's the rare street market/Weihnachtsmarkt where they're willing to negotiate (and even there they usually don't).
I'm curious to know other countries experience if people can chime in.
I have better things to do with my time than convince someone something is not worth as much as they want for it.
Same works in Japan. Saved me a few hundred bucks on my TV.
Funnily enough, there was a big media frenzy when haggling was legalized* in 2001 that everyone was going to start to haggle in supermarkets and every store would grind to a halt. That obviously didn't happen.
*) Technically, it was legal before, but limited to 3% of the price.
I prefer shops where they have already offered stock at their best price and refuse to price it lower. One less thing to worry about.
I'm not a Business Major or anything, but I'm guessing the median mark-up on items is 100% (50% profit). Thus if I get a 40% discount on something (like a mattress), the seller is still most likely making a 20% profit.
Well, there's your first problem. A 100% markup will only yield 50% profit if you have no operating costs at all.
Just a few examples:
1) salvage fee. As a youth I had very cheap car. The side panel was seamless with the top of the cab. A driver who pulled out too far into the street just backed up into me and damaged my 1/4 panel. Repair exceeded the “value” of the vehicle. Insurance says they will pay me up to the value of the car, minus salvage fee. Oh. What’s that? It’s the value _they_ would get for junking the car. Why are you entitled to this? Because when we pay the value of the car, we own it. Uh. No you don’t, because I didn’t sell it to you. Round-and-round. I’m one for two on that fight.
2) Square (the online credit card payment peeps) have a dark pattern. A button on the site will, without confirmation, instantly charge you some additional three percent of your receivables to deposit it instantly in your bank account. The button looks exactly like a bunch of other buttons you need to click. Off shore call center will not budge on this one.
* https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisi...
Clips of all of them being said:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-7aw6vurY
I wish I could memorized them more readily, but I have to real practical reason to keep them stored in my head, but I wish I could have them handy for funsies just because.
Instead negotiate on value. If you’re going to pay such a higher price, find out what else you can get that is valuable to you but of little value to them. For instance instead of 40% off on rooms, I’ve gotten free upgrades to better rooms, with late 3pm checkouts.
It's too much mental effort and I don't find there's any mental reward to the process. It doesn't feel like I got "a deal" it feels like the business or individual I negotiated with is probably trying to rip me off, and probably succeeded.
I'll get the best price by businesses competing with each other for my custom. Or I won't. Either way 'haggling' is alien to me and I prefer the world to be more straightforward.
in fact I'm so bad at this that it extends to the inability to see prices on items.
If I walk into a shop and notice that it doesn't have prices on items I'll walk out. I do NOT want to be talked into buying something.
The last thing you want to do with a customer like that is remind them they are spending money.
Unless it is something I really need/want, in which case I might have to step out of that comfort zone. But retailers might be surprised by how much I'm willing to do without in order to avoid that!
The price i pay for not dealing with the stress of haggling is well worth it for most things (salaries an exception where it may be worth it)
I don't view negotiating as something stressful.
I have custom DNS setup, that didn't seem to improve it much.
BTW traffic being faster in a VPN is pretty common for ISP throttling, for whatever reason.
But like you said, it's not useful to us as a customer of an ISP because we can't alter the routing table used by the ISP even if we identified a problematic routes/peers. You can try to complain to their customer support, and might get lucky if the customer support has technical authority to debug peering issues.
* https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition
* https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisi...
However, when our first child was born it quickly became apparent the camera wasn't good enough (especially with one set of her grandparents being long distance).
So I went into the shop and told them I wanted one of 3 phones which had the best cameras at the time. The per month price was £42 a month so quite a big step up from what I was paying. However, they also wanted to charge £100 to end the contract early. After a bit of back and forth they reduced this by about £20. I refused the deal and walked next door to a coffee shop.
I sat down with a coffee and called the customer services for my mobile phone provider. Told the woman why I needed a new phone but that I didn't want to pay the contract fee. Five minutes later the fee disappeared and inexplicably the price for the contract also dropped by £10 a month. The new phone was shipped overnight.
Large companies maintain physical presence for brand building and to help customers who need more assistance. They indirectly charge for that.
Few memories that seem relevant:
- The advice is to negotiate by building a relationship or mutual understanding. The opposite party should feel good about granting you the sales and not begrudge your style or demands. He had chapters about how to socialize what is essentially a trade. Chat them up, show them why you would like the product, etc. Some of that feels old fashioned.
- You can't one-time negatiate something through display of power. That's a negotiation style for repeat negotiations where you balance your display of power with a loss of future bargaining power.
- Can't negotiate when the other party has no skin in the game. Be it the owner of the store, or someone selling on a concept of commission: they can oversee the financial consequences of your willingness to strike a deal. Can't negotiate with hourly wagers in large firms.. Unless (relationship) they like you and are allowed to decide on prices.
1. I should have seen it coming - entitled dude took on himself to get the 33% discount he thought he deserved. 2. It sucked. I spent some time since writing some agreement template and will slowly roll them out with new clients.
I would have negotiated my job offer in a similar way but got a good offer sooner than I expected and didn’t have any other offers in the pipeline. The recruiter was refreshingly honest about it too, “I’m not going to lie and tell you we can’t go higher, but you would need a counteroffer”.
For anything other than massively expensive purchases or job offers, negotiating doesn’t really seem worth the time and tends to give off vibes as a difficult customer or a cheapskate (at least in the U.S.)
Negotiations have their place, but you also have to consider if this is the right place. In my small business I will give a small discount if somebody asks, but they get themselves added to the "don't bother helping them" category of customer.
Turns out if I bought a minimum amount they were willing to give me a significant discount - much better than the sale pirce, and the minimum amount wasn't that much.
I may start doing this a lot - just email and ask for a coupon.
Instead of trying to negotiate fruitlessly 100x (I have enough experience to know this doesn’t work well anymore and is a time waster) I just wait for the deal to happen for me.
So far - it’s worked great and people around me are impressed. As they say, hurry up and wait.
Our current living situation was intolerable due to unending construction noise next door, and the minimum time you could rent an apartment for was 6 months, so it was a matter of moving right now or being stuck until we took possession of the house.
Found the perfect place, at a reasonable price, and of course there was tons of interest in it. I insisted on getting the first viewing appointment, put in an application immediately, and offered the landlords an extra $50/month on top of the rent they were asking.
So, of course my application was the one they accepted. In this situation, $300 very well spent.
This may not be the best starting point, but it's a place.
A friend took some coaching class once where they were given "scary" human interaction challenges, starting with very small simple ones and working up to ones where you would expect to get slapped. Not only did it help condition my friend to be more outgoing, but he got a surprising number of "Ok"s. I'm not sure this is the best approach, but it appeared to be effective.
And it reminds me of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vZXgApsPCQ
I've always assumed prices at retail shops are fixed, because, for the brief (and horrible) period of time _I_ worked retail, prices are set by corporate...
Any suggestions? Advice? Links? Primers?
I've negotiated my whole life for salary and consulting rate, but never negotiated anything else.
Additionally, for anyone reading this that doesn't know it, you CAN negotiate AirBNB rates, and often do it in a way where you AND the host are happier. I didn't know this until being with someone who runs several top-tier AirBNB houses.
Some AirBNB hosts would be happier letting you stay for a few days "officially" (to make sure you're not crazy or a jerk), and then extend the reservation in cash. Or book the reservation for a long duration, then shorten it once you check in.
It varies from location to location but we sometimes offered guests a 15% off discount if paid in cash, frequently it worked out that we got the same amount.
Could be a lack of imagination on my side ofc.