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Comment by jlund-molfese | Hacker News Reader

I don’t disagree with anything you said, but some countries, like the US, don’t have a national ID system. So we usually have the option of using one of several different ways to verify our identities[1] for commercial services. Unfortunately most still do give you fixed numbers that don’t change unless you move to another state.

1. https://help.id.me/hc/en-us/articles/360017833054

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but some countries, like the US, don’t have a national ID system

This is.. not quite true. Social security numbers are used this way (even if they aren't intended to be such a thing) and passports are essentially a national ID system. My passport is the only valid ID that I have - of course, I live outside the US and have to have the nearest US embassy renew it. (I don't qualify for Norwegian IDs yet, and my immigration card is a supplement to my passport instead of actual ID)

An American passport ID number changes every ten years, causing lots of problems when foreign banks (like Chinese ones) try to use it as a stable ID number. Source: personal experience.

I've had absolutely no issues with it here in Norway, but Norway gives folks a number much like a SSN, which is used more widely than a SS# in the US alongside a picture ID.

China uses foreigner passport IDs in place of a Chinese ID number. Which is kind of dumb since that number changes, which caught the bank by surprise. I had to carry around both my old and new passport for awhile after my first renewal.

> passports are essentially a national ID system

Not very helpful as a national ID if they are a relative rarity

That is only because the average person is priced out of it, honestly. If I remember correctly, it cost around days work if you make minimum wage.

Right, but I think the concept of a national ID necessarily has the property of everyone (as close as is feasible) having one because it is required and they should be stable across time. Passports are optional, they expire, and they aren't stable. Not everyone can get an American passport (e.g., non-citizens).

Tax IDs are as close as we've got.

Passports are a federal ID, but they’re not mandated in the same way that other countries like Estonia mandate national IDs.

SSNs? Sure, they’re (optionally) used as an identifier. But they’re primarily used in the financial world, along with your credit score. Most state and federal agencies won’t require an SSN for official business (again excepting taxes & payments). A hotel will accept a Global Entry card for check in. UPS will accept a non-driver’s license to pick up a package. You can vote with a student ID in some states.

And don’t forget people who are undocumented immigrants or on F-1 and J-1 visas who don’t even have a SSN, but still need to open US bank accounts, pay taxes, get US driver’s licenses, and vote in municipal elections.

Identification is complicated in the US!

> SSNs? Sure, they’re (optionally) used as an identifier.

They're misused as an identifier. They've also been leaked to fuck and back.

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