Comment by grogenaut | Hacker News Reader

Comment by grogenaut | Hacker News Reader

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Please continue to tell me that I'm having fun incorrectly.

I'm 46, I have well over 10k hours in hundreds of video games. Been gaming since I had an Atari and games had no directions or guides like Indiana Jones.

Having difficulty that I don't enjoy in a game is the number 2 reason after "it didn't click" that I abandon a game.

There's literally nothing that stops me from reading a novel or watching a movie or walking through a museum or a world historical site to gate keep that experience. Games is the only one where we say "you must enjoy frustration or read spoilers to progress". Just gate keeping that great artistic vision. If it is art worth the experience it shouldn't behind a wall saying "get gud to enter". Let people experience it how they can or want to or have time to.

We're no longer charging quarters based on deaths but that still has it's tendrils in our artform.

To be clear I die a ton in games, I also appreciate it when the game is like ok buddy you tried you can go forward like gta5/gth2. I died 10 times to gremlin shamans in valheim yesterday, but that isn't gatekeeping some artwork, and that game has creative mode.

For my part I don't enjoy games where the gameplay is just something you do to experience a story. Last of Us is a good example. Great story, great atmosphere, bored to tears playing it. If Dark Souls were easy I would probably feel the same.

It's also important to appreciate how difficult it is to balance a game especially when your character's power level increases throughout the game. Most games that have a hard mode are lazy: bosses just have more health or enemies suddenly get headshots all the time. The game needs to be balanced around an intended difficulty level to make it compelling. It takes a lot of talent to make a good difficulty curve, as proven by the lame ripoffs of Souls games that have come out over the years.

That's the beauty tho, an optional difficulty mode lets people pick and choose. For instance in GT5 which has the 3 fails and skip mode, I can choose to try again, or I can chose to move the story forward, it's my choice. This fixes massive difficulty spikes and smooths out other parts of the game. So you can have it either way. It doesn't in any way remove your choice to have the "pure" experience, or mine to get 95% of your experience out of the game.

I think I skipped one mission in GT5 (yoga) and about 5 in GTH2 (the cuba stealth missions that were broken). My brother played along side me and is not an experienced gamer, he would skip the parts that required constant fast aiming, but played the rest. It worked well for both of us.

As a note, Sony had an internal stat a while back, only 10% of people ever finish any game, only 30% make it past the first 3rd... This was for people who purchased the game. This wasn't an average across all titles, this was very consistent for most titles. This was measured with trophies. People fell off very obviously at each boss or challenge increase. If you're making an "Authorial experience" this type of gate keeping will keep most people from experiencing it that would have otherwise.

Great points. I’m turning 40 in a few couple months, so I saw a mostly saw it all since the beginning as well, from Kings Quest till games today as they evolved. I would concisely boil my view down to, and I think you’ll agree: I prefer games be fun even when losing.

For me that says it all. And I don’t find the Souls games fun. Too much 3D camera control, and frustrating rather than fun when dying. I think if you removed the beautiful graphics, few people would play them. I also think the player base for these titles are going to skew younger, those who haven’t experienced as much as we have. I see nothing special in them at all. They landed on no magic for me.

The game that brought me to this realization that a good game should be fun even when losing is League of Legends. While there’s too many kids that think the fun is only in stomping out the opponent quickly or they want to quit, for me that game is fun in the struggle for a comeback. And I’m still mysteriously unbothered when I lose. I enjoy it all the way.

For me, that’s the mark of a good game. And it’s probably not a coincidence that it’s the most popular video game in the world.

"I would enjoy Ulises more, if only James Joyce had published a 3rd Grade version alongside".

Sometimes it's worthwhile to keep an artistic vision as intended, even if not everyone will enjoy the work for it.

The only thing that stops me from reading Ulysses is that I didn't enjoy it, not because I couldn't memorize the correct pattern of verbs to pass Garrett Deasy and acquire my paycheck.

Your comment seems unreasonable to me. What exactly does it mean to enjoy things to you?

Sure, it's physically possible to read any part of Ulysses as there are no physical barriers but for what gain? You're not going to pull any enjoyment out of reading the last few pages of Ulysess. The non existing barrier is a moot point.

The only way of enjoying the last pages of Ulysess is by enjoying the whole thing. And to enjoy Ulysess, you havr to put in your time and go through hoops that aren't usual for most other books. I feel like it's very disingenuous to say that the only reason you haven't read Ulysess is bc you didn't enjoy it. Enjoying Ulysess contains enjoying going the extra mile for it.

How is that different from the Souls games?

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